You can sell me on Piefed without trying to cancel Lemmy out of nowhere.
How does it compare to mbin as a Lemmy alternative?
this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2025
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"Stranglehold" lmao. They invented the threadiverse and they are welcoming other implementations like mbin and piefed. That's the opposite of a stranglehold.
Go cancel yourself
The capitalfascists are trying everyrhing they can to destabilize any attempt at anything free. I'm not saying piefed is that but the amount of recent tries to cancel the lemmy devs and now lemmy itself does reek like capfash.
@dessalines@lemmy.ml do you guys know that a couple of these attempts are being made? Please update us if more stuff like this pops up.
i wouldn't say they invented the threadiverse, groups have existed on the fediverse since diaspora, but they certainly popularised it.
Diversifying the amount of software in any network is always a good thing though.
Why cancel lemmy? it ain't perfect, but it's not a bad platform.
Some people for some reason want to cancel or boycott lemmy as a software because they think it'll hurt the Devs, which is stupid because this is open source software. Not only do the Devs get nothing from people using it without donating but they can't stop people from using it either, and since it's opensource, they can't stop people from modding/forking it either. This whole movement to cancel Lemmy is just reactionary garbage.
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i just say feel free to block the triad of tankies instances, i imagine the complaints are come from there.
What the fuck are you talking about Jesse?
I like Piefed, it's my daily driver, but cancelling Lemmy is probably too much.
The majority of people still haven't moved from !privacy@lemmy.ml (!privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) or !linux@lemmy.ml (!linux@programming.dev ), so trying to get them to switch platform based on "cancelling" isn't productive.
If you want to advocate for your platform, explain what features Piefed has compared to Lemmy (https://join.piefed.social/features/) instead.
I've always thought it was really weird and really dumb sentiment to want to cancel Lemmy, as an Open source software. It's like people think they need to endorse the developers' views to use Lemmy, or pay them money to use the software. But like that's really dumb. Lemmy is free and opensource software, the developers have no say in who uses it, it's also opensource meaning anyone can fork it. So this position just seems weird and reactionary.
One thing that really makes me reluctant about the future of piefed is the fact that it runs on Python. Great for tinkering but it likely won't scale well, and Python is famous for breaking backwards compatibility. So expect this project to be hosed when Python 4 or 5 comes out and breaks compatibility or syntax with the previous version. I saw this happen with Kodi and other platforms with Python Based plugins, and it'll most definitely happen again, not to say it can't happen with something like Rust or Go, but these compiled languages are designed for big projects, python is just one-off scripts, so the ones maintaining languages like Rust, Go, C++ work a bit harder to keep them as functionally compatible as possible so big projects aren't crippled and trashed by an update.
Anyway that's my opinion on this whole thing, I don't believe Piefed is the future, and I do not think Instance Admins should jump at the chance to abandon Lemmy. Maybe for sublinks if it ever comes out, but not for piefed.
Mate,you have a 20 year old perception of python. "good for tinkering", Cheezus...
Are you denying the problem of Backwards compatibility with python versions? It was and still is a big problem today. I'm still seeing the affects of that though many communities. I don't really think it's only good for tinkering but I know its developers clearly do, otherwise they wouldn't have subjected us to the transition from python 2.7 to python 3 and the fallout that followed, and people wouldn't have been so eager to comply with them dropping python 2.7 support in all their python integrated envionments before you could say bitrot.
Yeah somehow that doesn't give me much confidence for the future.
Python 2 transition took decades and EOL was almost a decade ago, get over it. If you still want to use it, use it!
I don't understand this approach at all. Software evolves and sometimes you need breaking changes. Godot did it as well, but I guess that "great for tinkering" as well.
It fills me with confidence that the language is the most widely used in the world and is not afraid to do what must be done instead of growing stale and unwieldly so that lazy developers don't learn anything new.
Yes I don't think that demolishing whole ecosystems is a good thing. I think that it's a shitty mentality of wanting shiny and new shit and fixing what isn't broken. I am a believer in legacy support and I find it weird and concerning to see and hear people complain about it. You do realize that if Python had been the Web's scripting engine instead of JS, a lot of Websites would've been, and still would be trashed and unusable due to said breaking changes with zero regard for legacy support. Thankfully that wasn't the case, but it does go to show that legacy support and backwards compatibility is important.
Again, python 2 still exists. nothing would be "trashed". If you want backwards compatibility just keep using python2. We clearly don't see things the same way, but given that python is the most popular languge in the world, I'm happy most see it my way.
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there is nothing wrong with lemmy.
My thought is that Piefed is too eager to curate my experience and too heavily promoted of late to be believably organic
It reeks of an organized, astroturfed attempt to effectively centralize the fediverse.
too heavily promoted of late to be believeably organic
No. Its promoted because of its fast development and extra features.
Piefed is decentralised itself.
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I don't really agree that it's an attempt to centralize the fediverse but I do think that the push and praise for it feels extremely unnatural, especially how people are bragging about liking and wanting the reputational features of it, and being able to hide the modlog. Like dude those are the biggest reasons people left Reddit, and now suddenly "people" are just going gaga for those same anti-features. That seems more than fishy to me...
The reputational anti-features are part of what makes me suspicious. I agree entirely with your impression of it.
And the unnatural and extremely sudden increase in mentions - over just the last week or so, it's gone from Piefed almost never being mentioned anywhere to it being mentioned in hundreds if not thousands of threads a day. That also makes me suspicious.
The other thing though is Piefed's automated subscription feature, which, if it gains enough clout, will allow it to effectively promote or undermine, as the devs prefer, communities or even entire instances, and to erect a barrier to entry for new communities and new instances, simply by granting or withholding inclusion on its subscription lists. That's the primary thing that triggers my suspicion.
Well - that and the fact that aside from anti-features like reputation and automated subscriptions, I don't see anything notable about the software, and to the degree that it differs from lemmy or mbin, it seems if anything to be inferior, which makes the sudden flood of praise just that much more suspicious.
And the unnatural and extremely sudden increase in mentions - over just the last week or so, it's gone from Piefed almost never being mentioned anywhere to it being mentioned in hundreds if not thousands of threads a day. That also makes me suspicious.
It was gaining momentum anyway, but the big reason was the collapse of lemm.ee - which held many medium-sized communities having to find a new home. A lot (not all) chose piefed.
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Beehaw has been asking for better moderation tools for two years, it's nothing new.
Also the lemm.ee admins burnout made people question how to deal with toxic users
I thought anyone could create a Piefed instance, and it can be interacted with by both mbin and Lemmy?
i presume you're questioning the assertion that it seems like an attempt to effectively centralize the fediverse?
Yes - anyone is free to start an instance.
However, a new instance is not going to get any communities on Piefed's preset list of subscrptions, nor is any community which the Piefed devs, for whatever reason, disapprove of or oppose or simply dislike. And that means that if Piefed can gain enough users (by, for instance, astroturfing the appearance of greater popularity than it in fact currently enjoys), then it will be able to effectively gatekeep the fediverse - to undermine or advance existing instances and create an insurmountable barrier to entry for new instances, by granting or withholding positions on its list of communities to which users are automatically subscribed.
Additionally, it seeks to do essentially the same thing to individual users, by instituting a karma system (something that the rest of the fediverse has not coincidentally avoided, since it was and is so easily and often abused on Reddit) and by automatically collapsing responses with 10 or more downvotes (it would be child's play to use bots to deal out ten downvotes to whoever one pleased). Again, if it can attract enough users, it will then have enough clout to effectively control the narrative not just in its own communities, but throughout the fediverse.
And those potentialities, in combination with the fact that Piefed has gone from being rarely if ever even mentioned at all to, in just the last few days, being mentioned hundreds if not thousands of times a day in threads on virtually any topic, makes me highly suspicious.
Piefed has gone from being rarely if ever even mentioned at all to, in just the last few days, being mentioned hundreds if not thousands of times a day in threads on virtually any topic, makes me highly suspicious.
You make interesting points, but for this specific thing, it almost certainly has to do with the .ee shutdown which was announced just a few days ago, apparently PieFed has fantastic comm transfer tooling so that's why it's probably been exploding in discussions since .ee has a number of large comms that are trying to figure out their next steps
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Fwiw, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
I for one am extremely happy to see PieFed flourish, and one of my chief reasons to move to it 8 months ago was specifically to block lemmy.ml.
That said, I have no desire to "cancel" anyone at all - and the Lemmy devs are worthy of respect for their accomplishments, even as they also deserve some criticisms for the way that they run their instance.
I love how the future allows PieFed and Lemmy - and Mbin, nodebb, flarum, friendica, mastodon, pixelfed, etc. - to exist altogether in the Fediverse, without needing any of the others to die out. I even maintain accounts on both PieFed and Lemmy instances, as each currently offers features that the other lacks.
(also, if some of the lemmy instances were to be cancelled, then all of their users would come over to here... think about that for a moment, is that a desirable outcome to you? :-P)
Features
Nice things about PieFed:
- Written in a common programming language that many developers understand and which has a bright future ahead of it. Python, of course! This will enable more contributions from a wider range of people than if it was made with Erlang, Ruby, Rust or PHP, for example.
- Constructed in a simple and straightforward manner that new contributors can come to grips with quickly. No fancy algorithms, special design patterns, fragile build process, or front-end framework. Just Flask with sprinklings of vanilla JS and htmx.
- Keep third party dependencies to an absolute minimum, to make server administration easier. Python + database (PostgreSQL) and you’re good to go! Redis optional.
- Consume few resources, to make it cheap to run. Many examples of federated software are bloated Rube Goldberg machines that require hefty servers and serious server administration skills, making money a constant problem. PieFed instances will be small and nimble.
- Emphasise trust, safety and happiness, drawing inspiration from the Mastodon Covenant.
- Built to last using tried and true technology that will still work decades from now.
Differences between Lemmy and PieFed
- Comments with -10 score are collapsed by default.
- Communities are organized into topics. See https://piefed.social/topics.
- Image-heavy communities can have a tiled/masonry view, like https://piefed.social/c/pics@lemmy.world
- People who get downvoted a lot end up with a ‘low reputation’ indicator next to their name. You’ll know it when you see it.
- Hide all posts based on keyword filters.
- Keyboard shortcuts.
- Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.
- Better UI design (somewhat subjective!)
- Improved hotness ranking algorithm (subjective)
- Voting is private.
- See also features for healthy communities.
- Each community has it’s own wiki.
Mastodon Covenant & "safe spaces" are overmoderated trash. Features for healthy communities consist of Reddity moderation tactics.
Heavy handed moderation is the main reason Reddit disgusts me, so no thanks, & fuck that shit.
Better UI design
Not from what I've seen.
I don't have a problem with Lemmy as software. I do wish the devs weren't tankies, but we don't have to engage with them.
- Image-heavy communities can have a tiled/masonry view, like https://piefed.social/c/pics@lemmy.world
So what you're saying is that they have a ~~Social Credit~~ Karma system like Reddit does? I already hate it.
- Upvotes in meme communities do not add to reputation.
Oh a really strict social credit system. Yeah fuck piefed for sure. It's already bad enough that people maliciously downvote comments on lemmy with alts, giving power to their votes will just make that shit worse.
As much as people give the Lemmy Devs shit they work hard to prevent this from happening on Lemmy, they removed the score API so people couldn't use Karma bots like Reddit does, they have a publicly exposed modlog so mod actions can be called out and critiqued (piefed has no modlog as far as I can tell). They may have their problems but Lemmy is a far better platform in terms of freedom and open-ness. Piefed is the real Reddit 2.0 complete with it's own social credit system, designed to make people with less popular opinions (or people at the mercy of downvote brigading) be ostracized.
[Features][features]
- [Proceeds to list social credit features]
No thanks, if I wanted that I'd go to the CCP, Reddit, or Twitter.
People who get downvoted a lot end up with a ‘low reputation’ indicator next to their name. You’ll know it when you see it.
Software enforced echo chambers, as if it wasn't bad enough.
Everything else looks so good about piefed, sad to see a deal breaker like that.
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Did...did you start a lemmy community for people to talk about not talking on lemmy...on lemmy?
It appears to be a Piefed community. You can see it on Lemmy through the magic of federation though.
No... I started a Piefed community to discuss Lemmy alternatives and problems with Lemmy, on Piefed, the superior platform.
Lemmy isn't the only platform on the fediverse, nor the only one with communities.
I'm writing from Mbin btw, another platform that's not Lemmy.
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