this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2025
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FediLore + Fedidrama

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  2. When posting screenshots of drama, you must obscure the identity of all the participants.
  3. The poster must have a credible post and comment history before submitting a piece of history. This is to avoid sock-puppetry and witch hunts.

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Chronicle the life and tale of the fediverse (+ matrix)

Largely a sublemmy about capturing drama, from fediverse spanning drama to just lemmy drama.

Includes lore like how a instance got it's name, how an instance got defederated, how an admin got doxxed, fedihistory etc

(New) This sub's intentions is to an archive/newspaper, as in preferably don't get into fights with each other or the ppl featured in the drama

Tags: fediverse news, lemmy news, lemmyverse

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[–] FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Already said it in !main@lemmy.blahaj.zone but I'll say it again so others can see it here.

It seems drag was banned from the site for sharing people's DMs, though I'm sure that's not the whole story, drag has a history of being banned for way more than just the thing on the label. Looking at the comments on drag's home instance where it hasn't been removed, it seems drag was sharing those DMs in attempt to libel Ada for not taking the action drag wanted. That's on top of the fact that she did not give drag permission to share them. It's an asshole move for sure, and I have to say if I were in Ada's shoes I'd do the same.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Ada was also already wary of drag after the respecting pronouns rule announcement, because a number of blahaj users rightfully pointed out drag is still likely a troll. Fluff around and find out basically.

[–] FirstMajesticComet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It ultimately isn't surprising. Drag has been very sus from the beginning, drag exhibited a lot of behaviors that made me leery. Though at the time I didn't say anything since it was only a hunch and most people were just voicing transphobic complaints about pronouns.

[–] P4ulin_Kbana@lemmy.eco.br 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

What made drag feel suspicious?

Either you have issues with reading comprehension or you are an alt of drag. When people say someone is being sus or has been sus they generally mean they as a person are behaving in ways that make others suspicious.

[–] exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I believe transparency is desirable and the single party consent rule in regards to private conversations should be the primary accepted doctrine here outside of any communique that is sexual/private and includes nudes and or personal data and could constitute doxxing.

That's your opinion, but many people do not agree with you. I myself would be pissed if you shared our DM convo without asking me first, or even letting me know you were going to. I can see why Ada would and why she did what she did, it's disrespectful and adversarial.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's an instance ban. Instance bans automatically issue community bans for local communities the user has been active in.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -2 points 2 weeks ago

Ada, drag is sorry for sharing the screenshots. Drag didn't think they were anything serious. Drag won't share any screenshots without permission again.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Ironic considering how much flack blahaj got for defending that user.

[–] Zero22xx@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

I think Blåhaj handled this person well over all. Even if Drag wad just 100% troll, drag wasn't being fed in Blåhaj and had to go elsewhere. But also there was always the chance that drag is just someone on a journey or with things to sort out. Some people have completely given up on being any gender and treat it like a joke in an almost nihilistic way. But clearly there's a line between that and an actual troll.

Either way, I wouldn't say that it's standard heterosexual cisgender behaviour to go as far as Drag did just for the lulz. So maybe one of these days, Drag will have an awakening and remember how no one in the community either fed drag or shunned drag when drag was confused and behaving badly.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I personally don’t think they were a troll but I am also not sure I agree with banning people for not remembering or wanting to use their unusual pronouns.

But I am not well-educated on the topic of neopronouns so if someone feels like educating me or suggesting some readings I am open to it.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

No one was banned for not rembering drags pronouns or for accidentally getting them wrong.

People were banned for dismissing the validity of neopronouns or for deliberately and repeatedly getting pronouns wrong.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Was it dismissing or just not understanding? To be honest my recollection is a bit fuzzy.

I’m a little afraid to be having this conversation lest I be accused of prejudice against trans or nonbinary folks, a prejudice I try my best to fight against. But I don’t even understand the connection there since we already have well-established systems of pronouns for such people.

Personally, I truly can’t fathom why neopronouns are necessary and while I don’t want to disrespect anyone, they are so uncomfortable to use that it just makes me not want to address someone who uses them… especially when they are implicitly linked to having sex with non-human mythological creatures.

But maybe I am just ignorant. Drag was my first introduction to this concept. I’d like to learn more about this.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Was it dismissing or just not understanding?

Some folk require understanding before they offer acceptance. Those folk will frame it as “just not understanding”. I frame that as lack of acceptance. Acceptance isn’t contingent on understanding. You or I not understanding an aspect of someone elses identity has nothing to do with the validity of their identity.

If you wish to ask someone questions about their pronouns and identity, you’re welcome to do so, but remember they don’t owe you an answer, and whether they offer you an answer or not, and whether you understand their perspective or not, either way, gatekeeping and invalidating their identity is not on.

they are so uncomfortable to use that it just makes me not want to address someone who uses them

That was the other option I offered folk. If someone has stated their pronouns, either use them, or if you can’t bring yourself to use them, don’t engage with the person.

If the person is trolling, report them. But even if they’re trolling, the above statement still stands. Respect their pronouns or don’t engage with them as you report them.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How can one accept or reject a thing without understanding what it is they are accepting? Is not immediately changing the way one speaks without a reason or even an explicit request equivalent to denying someone’s identity? I don’t think my discomfort with neopronouns is because I reject anyone’s identity. I don’t even understand what such a person’s identity is. Unlike established pronouns, neopronouns do not have any meaning at all to me because I’ve never heard them before and no one has defined them. What do they signify? I assume something different for each one, so what is it? I’ve always been careful with my language, so using words without a clear understanding of their meaning makes me uncomfortable.

Language is a very meaningful topic for people. Both for the speaker and the spoken to. We have all been acculturated to speak in a certain way, and to understand the meanings of such speech in a certain way. I don’t think asking people to change the way they speak is as trivial as you seem to imply. Nor is declining to change the way one speaks the same as saying “I reject your identity”, unless such a meaning is intended.

And of course I understand that someone may not want to have this (or any) conversation. But I also feel that you can’t expect people to change without them understanding why they need to change. Most people hate change, it’s just human nature. So if you choose not to educate people, you’ll have to accept that they remain ignorant until such time as someone takes on that burden.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm trans. Cis people literally can never truly understand my experience or why the things that are important to me are important. Acceptance can't be contingent on understanding they can never have.

Neopronouns are the same. You can work on your own understanding to reduce your discomfort but your discomfort should be your problem, not something you get to force on to others

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

If people cannot understand your experience, it's not because you are trans and they are cis. There is no universal trans experience and you still need to work to make yourself understood to other trans people, who have entirely different experiences from your own. People have the capacity to understand things outside their direct experience. Some people go 40 years thinking of themselves as cis, and then change their mind!

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago

If people cannot understand your experience, it's not because you are trans and they are cis

Well, it's not just that. As you say, even trans folk can't understand other trans folks experience. But that still speaks to my point. Acceptance shouldn't be gatekept behind understanding

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

If Drag was trolling, the troll was exposing how shallow non-binary acceptance is for your average "progressive."

"Not feeding the troll" in that case is treating their request with a minimal level of respect, and that was simply too much inconvenience for 90% of Lemmy.world and a very potent reminder of why trans and enby folks need their own spaces.

Including some people in this thread with an axe to grind and no self awareness to stop it.

[–] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Why is that troll not banned from ALL of lemmy? I don’t get it.

Oh, and for the record; this post and all the comments in it including mine- are exactly why they do what they do.

They feed on the drama. Ban them, and this ends.

[–] yunxiaoli@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's effectively impossible as a part of the nature of the fediverse. You could try banning alts on site but it's really not that hard to have a dozen alts waiting across host of instances.

[–] Rhoeri@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And when those alts call themselves “drag” what do you think will happen?

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Mods will ban them, they will make a new account and carry on.

Bans only work for normal people.

[–] Draconic_NEO@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Correction bans only work for people who respect the paradigm of "not being allowed to sign up again when banned" and "not being allowed to lie on registration application" if it's present on the server.

Normal people don't get permabanned from servers left, right, and center.

[–] Sturgist@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Reeks of big brother, but I wonder if there's a way to device ban.

[–] Draconic_NEO@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If you could force users to use an app like Reddit does you could get device data. Though short of that not really. Browser fingerprinting and tracking cookie placement (What Reddit uses in their web session) is described that way by lay people (and people trying to fear monger or dissuade ban evasion) but Browsers like Tor or Mullvad defeat that very easily by not saving the data and randomizing the fingerprinting data.

Most Lemmy users wouldn't use a locked down black box app similar to the Reddit app though. It would be a red flag for many of them. An instance which requires that would not be popular.

[–] Sturgist@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

That tracks. And is a good thing actually. Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Appreciate it!

[–] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Sharing DMs is a dick move.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Not if it is exposing admin/mod abuse.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 1 points 2 weeks ago

good thing it wasn’t (source: i was the third party recipient of those shared DMs; they were fully irrelevant to admin/mod action, abusive or otherwise)

[–] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

If they follow the rules, they are always welcome in Casual Conversation.

I do not understand the same reasons to judge them that everyone else seems to. They have never seemed antagonistic.

[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

There are/were some instances of harassment with multiple accounts from them IIRC

[–] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How would anyone know it's them?

[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Its been a while since I saw the posts, but it was not subtle at all; immediate reactionary posts from the same instance all badmouthing someone drag was arguing with, using the same phrasing and sentence structure drag uses.

[–] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Stop tolerating their ridiculous neopronoun. It was an obvious fucking troll. Grow a spine and start calling this fucking bullshit out instead of letting it infect the LGBT communities.

[–] Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Idk fam, I feel like weird use of language kinda pales in comparison to sexual harassment of other users, and the fact that the former is what most people seem to care about with DragonFucker is kinda concerning.

[–] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

I didn't know that that stupid motherfucker sexually harassed anyone. So the former was the only one relevant to my experience.

I think I'm willing to take a stance on, You can have he him, she her, they them, it, or some mixture of those.

Generally I just wouldn't care however seeing that community bend itself into a pretzel over an obvious troll pretty much cemented my feeling on the subject. At some point you're no longer being tolerant and are just being gullible.