this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2025
123 points (95.6% liked)

Ask Lemmy

36010 readers
1144 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] KelvarCherry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

UBI is great, but First there's gotta be separate publicly-funded social nets for essentials like food, housing, water, electricity, heating...

Giving everyone $5000/mo to buy everything you want and need is far too volatile, and with poor budgeting people will end up trapped in debt spirals, needing microfinance loans to survive. I'd rather the government give $1000/mo to buy everything you want, then having public services to provide food, rent, and other necessities.

I fear that giving free-range UBI on its own will spawn a bunch of extreme examples that get disseminated en-masse by reactionary outlets to breed resentment of UBI and "handouts" in the eyes of the people. You'll have folks who are physically and/or mentally ill, who spend the whole allowance on drugs or gambling or porn or other controversial expenditures; then have to turn to charity to survive until their next UBI check. I'd need to know people would have that stable base before I'd feel comfortable with them being thrown that rope.

This is coming from seeing decades of USA arguments against welfare, then watching the "For The Children" fearmongering against the open internet. I just don't want a few extreme examples to have us all strung up.

[–] flamiera@kbin.melroy.org 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

To filter that, mandatory rehabilitation would be needed to ensure UBI would be in the right hands

Want the money? Get help. Otherwise we just can't trust you because of your past reckless history.

Should a single cent ever go to porn, alcohol, drugs or gambling. Well, they better enjoy that check because it will be their last.

[–] some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Wouldn't this approach require a massive bureaucracy for enforcement?

As a simple example, let's say I earn $100 at my job and take in another $100 from UBI. I now have $200 in my bank account. Once it's in my account, $1 is $1. If I turn around and spend $10 on the devil's lettuce and porn (quite the bargain if you ask me) how is the government going to prove it's UBI dollars I'm spending? I can think of 3 possible solutions and they all have serious potential problems:

  • I keep and provide all of my receipts for the month to prove that $100 or less total was spent only on things that weren't marijuanas and porn (not really feasible for most people, and also easy to defraud)
  • I have a separate UBI account and a special debit card that won't let me buy certain things or only works at certain places (similar to how EBT or FSA work already, but government could interfere with this account for arbitrary reasons)
  • We create a new currency, a "digital dollar", either alongside or as a replacement for USD (the really worrisome one, everything here is fully tracked and controlled at the whim of whoever is in government)

In my opinion, UBI should be given without strings attached. Even ignoring the moral questions around controlling how people spend their funds, trying to do any of the above would result in massive overhead from having to create and administer these new controls, possibly exceeding the loss coming from a small minority who would possibly misuse the funds, or it just gives the government way too much control. This could actually serve to entrench inequality and disenfranchisement rather than providing a way to ease them.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 hour ago

This is great point.

There should be a powerful collective owned provider run as a non profit for every basic need.

Innovators can still sell an improved more expensive option all they like.

Today's "Innovators" hate this because they aren't innovators, they're rent seekers.

Real innovators aren't afraid of competition.