this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2025
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After police used Flock cameras to accuse a Denver woman of theft, she had to prove her own innocence (coloradosun.com)
submitted 1 day ago by gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world
133 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20251030114314/https://coloradosun.com/2025/10/28/flock-camera-police-colorado-columbine-valley/

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[–] frunch@lemmy.world 169 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

I strongly encourage everyone interested in this topic (and you should be!) to read the article because this shit runs deep and they see absolutely no problem approaching the law in this fashion. Absolutely disgusting erosion of liberty and privacy, though it's not the least bit surprising. Here's an excerpt i found particularly chilling--this cop is fully convinced (or acting as if he were) about the validity of this minimal-effort investigation they apparently were ready to arrest someone over. Note that weeks later it was fully disproven and ended with a terse email acknowledging that she provided enough proof to absolve herself as the suspect. No accountability for their mistake, just: "you can go now"

“You know we have cameras in that town. You can’t get a breath of fresh air in or out of that place without us knowing,” Milliman said to Elser, according to Ring doorbell footage of the Sept. 27 encounter viewed by The Colorado Sun.

“Just as an example, you’ve driven there about 20 times in the last month,” he added. 

Along with the Flock footage, the sergeant told Elser he also had a video from the theft victim that allegedly showed Elser ringing the doorbell before grabbing a package and running away. 

My favorite part

“I guess this is a shock to you, but I am telling you, this is a lock. One hundred percent. No doubt,” Milliman said.

😳

But Elser, a financial advisor, told the sergeant she had no idea what he was talking about. She asked several times to watch the video that Milliman insisted proved her guilt, but he refused to show her. And when Elser offered up footage from her Rivian’s onboard cameras to prove her innocence, Milliman said she could bring it to court.

“It doesn’t matter. I’ll be giving this all to you. If you are going to deny it to me, I am not going to help you with any courtesy,” Milliman said.

“It’s kind of funny because we have cameras on our truck, so we could show you exactly where we were,” Elser said. 

We are really fucked here. No accountability on their end, while foisting 200% accountability on ours.

[–] Cruel@programming.dev 81 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah, been like this for quite a while. They can drag you for a while, lose their case, shrug it off, and continue as normal.

Meanwhile, you lost your job after your arrest, maybe even were denied bail and had to stay ~2 years in jail waiting for trial, and spent $100k on legal expenses. Winning at trial gives you no restitution for those massive losses. You're expected to also shrug it off and continue life.

[–] MeThisGuy@feddit.nl 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

whatever happened to the right to a speedy trial? too many ppl give that up or is it not even asked anymore and you just have to know?

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 day ago

They just redefined “speedy” to be several years.

[–] Cruel@programming.dev 7 points 21 hours ago

Sometimes lawyers do preliminary motions like to suppress unconstitutional search warrants or change of venue and stuff. If it's complex, it can take a while, and defense cannot request speedy trial if they're filing things, but you also don't necessarily want to forgo filing useful things.

Also, if they violate the constitutional right to a speedy trial, you can file a habeas corpus or something and, even if you win, there's still no consequence except them shrugging and saying oops.

[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 53 points 1 day ago

This reminds me of how police abuse any new tool they're given.

Like how while trained dogs can actually sniff out drugs, when they're given to police, they get retrained to simply alert whenever the police want them to, and essentially become a flimsy reason to let police violate your rights and search anybody they want to.

And the police suffer zero repercussions for their actions. If they don't find drugs, there's nobody who's going to take them to court and force them to retrain their dogs or to disallow drug dogs from being used as reasonable suspicion.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 37 points 1 day ago (2 children)

We are really fucked here. No accountability on their end, while foisting 200% accountability on ours.

Is there some reason victims can't just sue flock into oblivion?

[–] frunch@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago

Good question! Frankly, i don't know. I have a feeling there would be some way they're protected in this arrangement since they're 'helping' law enforcement but that's far from even approaching legal precedent. I imagine questions like yours are going to be challenged in the courts as we move forward... 🫠

[–] veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world 5 points 19 hours ago

Qualified immunity, Hasan Minhaj did a whole Patriot Act episode on it

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 30 points 1 day ago

If "video of someone roughly looking like you" is enough to completely reverse the burden of proof, then you can throw the whole justice system out of the window.

[–] MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago

I thought it was interesting that she was ok with all the neighbourhood surveillance until it was used against her.