this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2025
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[–] inkrifle@lemmy.world 55 points 4 days ago (6 children)

So sick of the division amongst the left. He is far from perfect, but I'd much rather take a neoliberal over a fascist.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 32 points 4 days ago (9 children)

Jesus Christ he hasn’t even announced he’s running yet. Why are we already pretending these are the only two alternatives?

We don’t need to choose a neoliberal over a fascist… we can push for someone better.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

I’ve never tried to choose the neoliberal but I’ve never not had to vote for them.

If it’s not Newsom then it’ll be someone else I don’t like.

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[–] pregnantwithrage@lemmy.world 31 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

With all due respect, as I understand where this sentiment comes from, that is how Trump gained momentum and won.

I think the blue no matter who approach has failed more than worked considering Hillary failed, Biden did win but really it was more Trump lost, Kamala lost (she got a shit deal yeah but still neolib vs unchained Trump should have been a no contest) and going further back Gore and Kerry lost to Bush. Clinton basically was the centrist Republican neolib that got Dems a roadmap that they keep to this day.

The time for half measures is over and the DNC needs to adapt or they will end up like the Whig Party. If you dont believe me look at their approval right now, No one likes the Democrats

Newsom is an establishment figure and telling the next generation of voters this is going to be a candidate for change won't yield the results you think.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 21 points 4 days ago (2 children)

With all due respect, as I understand where this sentiment comes from, that is how Trump gained momentum and won.

Trump gained momentum and won because the people in this country don't know their ass from their elbow in terms of what is happening, and their whole picture of politics is based on confusion and incredibly effective weaponized propaganda.

You presented a child with a pretty unappealing fast food burger that had gone cold anyway, and a big lump of shit laced with (and labeled as) rat poison, and then he selected the shit and ate the whole thing. And your reaction is, "Well the burger should have been better." I mean, it's not at all an incorrect statement. But I feel like the way it played out should be automatic proof that the burger quality wasn't the core of the issue.

[–] pregnantwithrage@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I would say the citizens that experienced the fall out from NAFTA that gutted blue collar jobs and created the rust belt would say "the big lump of shit with rat poison" was the Democrats that threw the working class overboard years ago.

Speaking of poison, it is the same reason residents of Michigan would rather vote Trump because the Democratic party and Obama would rather gaslight them about their water being safe to drink instead of charging the corporations that cut costs that polluted the water with federal charges. Obama also bailed out Wall Street and left hard working Americans with a shell of an American dream.

The core of the issue is the Democrats use to be for the everyday man and they lost their way and eroded trust, that will never be gained back. What that leaves voters in fly over states with is a choice to vote their better interest or have a candidate that "tells it like it is" aka lie and get back at the party that screwed them over.

It's not as black and white when you're in the thick of it, as difficult as it is to reason with that base.

[–] ExFed@programming.dev 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing people he didn't exist. The greatest trick the Republican party pulled was convincing people that its most unpopular ideas are entirely Democrats' fault.

NAFTA was championed by, majority supported, and voted in by mostly Republicans. It was ultimately bipartisan, but Democrats were significantly more opposed to it than Republicans (of Republican Congress members, only 10 in the Senate and 43 in the House voted against it; of Democrats, 28 in the Senate and 156 in the House voted against it).

This isn't to say that NAFTA is objectively bad policy; most economists argue that it ultimately benefited the whole country. However it did expose US manufacturing to significant competition, reduced bargaining power for manufacturing workers, and shocked communities which were solely reliant on the sector to support them. Larger cities were mostly unaffected due to their more diverse economies, and in many cases thrived off increased trade and lower prices for goods. As a reminder, urbanites trend Democrat, rural folk trend Republican.

The trope that urban liberals successfully screwed over rural conservatives just isn't true. Instead it seems that, at screwing themselves over, urban liberals failed and rural conservatives succeeded.

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1031/vote_103_1_00395.htm https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/1993575

[–] pregnantwithrage@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The greatest trick the Republican party pulled was convincing people that its most unpopular ideas are entirely Democrats' fault.

That's called being politically savvy and out playing your competition which is why the Democratic party is always in free fall.

All this back and forth leads to this point: The Democrats are not equipped to handle a full assault of our democracy and thinking Gavin Newsom is the guy with some funny parrot tweets is not a real answer.

[–] ExFed@programming.dev 1 points 3 days ago

Oh, I'm not saying anything about Newsom, just trying to dispel some sadly common misinformation about NAFTA. I've yet to form a solid opinion of the guy, but I'm not without cynical biases, so he's got an uphill battle to win in my mind.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago (5 children)

When you don’t have a choice that didn’t back NAFTA then you vote for the ones who are currently saying it sucks. Not the ones pointing to obscure economic indicators and saying everything is fine.

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[–] piefood@feddit.online 4 points 3 days ago (9 children)

A cold fast food burger would have been miles ahead of what we were offered. Democrats wouldn't even say "Genocide is bad, and we shouldn't support it". They continuously gaslight Americans on the economy. They support the bombing of kids, and torture programs. They expand out the Republican's surveillance programs.

It's not a choice of a burger vs shit, it's a vomit vs shit

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[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 13 points 4 days ago (5 children)

First, criminalizing homelessness is fascism. If you can't take a stand for the homeless how can you expect anyone to take a stand for you? You thibk he won't throw you under the bus if it's politically expedient? Second, do you intend to repeat the same song and dance that got Trump elected twice? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Third, why are you compromising from now? Like come on it's still 2025, even if you're going to vote blue no matter who, now you should be projecting strength not compliance.

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[–] AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Neoliberals Don't oppose fascists.

He will work with the fascist to come up with a compromise that the fascists can live with. That probably means sacrificing vulnerable groups and rallying around right wing talking points.

He is right wing. Gavin newsom is just right wing. the fact that there's a uneven deeper more belligerent right wing out there doesn't mean that he is somehow an alternative to it.

[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 4 days ago (4 children)

This attitude is how you ended up electing Trump.

Its bonkers that you guys are spiralling into a dystopian shitscape day by day and just cant bring yourself to acknowledge that any alternative has to be better.

[–] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This is how I feel. I can’t stand neoliberals but some people on here are delusional for saying they won’t vote for Newsom if he is nominated.

[–] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's not only about voting, but the complaining.

It seems like the problem in the US is getting people to give a fuck. By spreading this narrative that the democrats are just slower fascists or whatever your just encouraging progressive voters not to vote.

[–] piefood@feddit.online 4 points 3 days ago

Well then maybe the Democrats should do somthing to counter that claim. Maybe something like not supporting fascism, and actually fighting against it when they have the chance.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago (9 children)

I’ve been voting for those alternatives for a quarter century and it hasn’t stopped the dystopian hellscape from happening.

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[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 4 days ago (3 children)

just cant bring yourself to acknowledge that any alternative has to be better.

That is not true. Slower fascism isn't appreciably better than faster fascism. The you of four or eight years in the future doesn't have any less of a right to not live under fascism than the you of right now. If by choosing the "better" alternative you throw away your ability to actually stop fascism you're missing the forest for the trees.

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[–] piefood@feddit.online 3 points 3 days ago

The Democrats refusing to acknowledge the desires of the voters, and actively screwing over workers is how we ended up with Trump. The Democrats are "better", but only in the sense that they aren't going to fix the problems that led to fascism. They've shown over and over that they'd rather support fascism, then fight against it.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Leftists: "Democratic politicians are feckless. They need to get on social media to call out Trump's bullshit on daily basis! When is a leader going to step up?!"

Somewhere, a finger curls on a monkey's paw.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

Calling him out on social media is absolutely not what I want and is definitely feckless.

[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Oh fuck you, you tell the left they can't critisize these people during elections and now we're not supposed to critisize them aftet elections too? When are we supposed to ask for things that keep us from dying then? You're part of the problem.

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