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this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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The problem, in my mind:
republicans/regressives (read nazis) actually get in line and vote for the R next to any name that they've heard in the last week (if not just because it has an R), which means that they actually get shit done (making things worse, but they all get behind it is my point).
On the other hand, democrats/leftists/progressives all sit here and fight one another because of reasons, some good, and some just a little silly in the grand scheme of things. This group doesn't know how to effectively work together to slowly and surely get to the same end goal.
The differences here are why regressives are able to rat fuck an entire nation, collectively, because they don't bicker with each other, their allies, about the smaller details.
The democrats/leftists/progressives are too busy trying to fight hundreds of different problems/battles that would all be solved (eventually, mind you, not right away like we wish it would be) by banding together and keeping the movement momentum going AFTER winning the election.
For an example, gaza and trans rights issues. Both VERY valid issues, and they should be discussed. What happened was those same groups focused way too much on the smaller details instead of the big picture. What SHOULD have happened was we voice our concerns on the issues, vote for the person (at this time, Harris) who had the highest chance of those issues being solved, and then keeping the fire going by continuing to press these concerns to THAT administration.
Look at it this way, even though it is too late: if Kamala had won, you'd be able to sit there and protest any actions that weren't being made towards your/your groups issues, and if we could all get on the same god damned page, you would have more allies who are more at ease with the current admin who could protest with you, because things aren't dire enough for them to focus on them and theirs (read fuck you, got mine). Under the orange buffoon, you can now get deported for protesting anything, let alone trans rights and gaza genocide. So, those allies you could've had are now being deported, killed, or arrested, and that makes others scared to protest with you.
TL;DR: Allowing the nazis to win because democrats/leftists/progressives can't see the bigger picture, and choose to focus on their own issues only (or at the very least, make it their highest priority when we should know that's not how it works, unfortunately) is the reason we have the orange shitler in office right now. This group is trying to fight 100 different battles, while regressives lock step and take away all the good we had achieved, instead of banding together and just doing the literal bare minimum (vote in the "neo-lib"). Full stop.
@PugJesus@lemmy.world is right, whether you like it or not.
The establishment Dems are only "allies" on some issues, and cannot be counted on for keeping their stances on those issues or actually doing much about them at all. For the most part, both parties are captured by and depend on corporations and the wealthy. Most politicians have no principles, because the profession attracts and rewards the kind of people who don't. Newsom is obviously being set up to be the next presidential candidate, and it already seems he's beginning to throw trans people under the bus (and is actively hostile to the poor and homeless). I do agree that harm reduction should be practiced; it's necessary, but not sufficient. Getting involved in progressive Democrat candidate campaigns, and voting in primaries is probably the best way forward electorally. It will likely take decades to right the ship though.
It's almost like you read Lucid's message, decided to type up a reply, but then missed the fucking point. These establishment dems are only 'allies on some issues' because we keep fighting amongst ourselves on what the top priority is instead of getting anything useful done.
Yes, we have "dems" that are not solid on issues we/you/I think are important, but the result is that when we don't vote for them, the much worse regressive party wins and makes things shittier for everyone.
I do agree that the solution is to get involved. Start local and engage with your local democratic org. Help support or find people to run for office with your opinions, but - and this is crucial - when someone better than a republican is on the ticket, fucking vote for them, even if they are not your perfect politician.
If you are not involved in local org politics, you can use our favorite mantra: vote blue no matter who. By doing so, you are ceding your opinion to the people who have more at stake or are more invested, but at least you are not letting evil win by default.
I understood the point, but had a particular issue with labeling the Dems as allies. I like to think of it as more as choosing your opposition. They mostly do not align on the issues that I align with, even the glaring social issues of respecting the trans minority, or funding genocides.
Edit: All issues are important. Someone with a consistent moral compass would align with almost everyone on all issues. At the very least they could get behind the poor and homeless, because most of us are just an accident or disease away from being the same. Woman rights are another issues that everyone should be on board with, because half the population are women, and everyone else has a close relationship with at least one woman.
so true, I don't enjoy voting blue. I hate the libs and am certainly not a lib, but I think harm reduction is important and I think it's certainly true that protesting under the orange regime is. alot more life threatening for someone like me than under Kamala or Biden. That's not to say that they will actually listen or take action but I'm more confident they won't deploy the national guard and Marines to my city and I think that's worth voting for
Absolutely correct.
But, let's ponder a little devil's advocate, Mind you, I'm not saying this is right, but there are hard questions.
Is the path out of this whole situation continuing to bunt? If we keep choosing the better of the two options while steadily losing ground, are we not still going to lose ground? Do we believe we're getting back all that ground because the left finally finds and backs someone who is willing to fight for what we need? Will they ever put someone, even truly moderate, out there, or will it be forever the less genocidal candidate?
If we continue to support them, will the left bring us left, or are they going to stay on the tit of the right and keep throwing us under the bus with concessions to fundamental moral questions?
Is this all miserable enough for us to agree to back a third party?
I voted blue because I don't want that moral blood on my hands. But are we just arranging deck chairs?
You can't win the [class] war if you don't live to fight another day. Still I would say 3rd party is better than non-voting.
Become more involved. Do you know your mayor?
If you are not helping pick the candidates on the ballot, then you just need to pick the lesser evil. If you want to do more than that, then be part of the decision of WHO ends up on the ballot, because that process has already started.
There's a significant hurdle to run for even the mayoral office: it doesn't pay well relative to a corporate job, and doesn't have the same job security. People can only run for the decision-making positions when they already have enough wealth to be comfortable without a "real job." Help find or select people with your values and we can take this back.
If you are mad at your options, the solution is not to give up, but to make better options.
There's no lack of attempts at this. The deck isn't just stacked, it's designed not to let outsiders in, so you get insiders-only. From the entire party, how many insiders are even marginally close to what we're asking for? Anyone who would even consider anti-corruption would never see the light of day on the nominations. Hell, we more of less have an entire party (green) that's more or less there to make sure no one else gets close.
The problem isn't the lack of attempts, it's that attempts are hyper focused on narrow avenues of change. People are either all in on the rigged game or highly improbable home runs.
Forcing change strictly through grinding election cycles is as absurd as opt-out accelerationism and magic-wand general strikes. In reality, political action in 2025 requires more legwork on all fronts than ever before.
It does require harm reduction voting, but it also requires building up the social structures that have been lost (or sabotaged) in the last 100+ years. You need to form a union, join a mutual aid network, organize protests and boycotts and every other coordinated action of all shades of legality.
Obviously it's more than any one person can do alone, but every person making those connections makes the social web stronger and easier to build on for the next. The first step that 90% of people on here need to do is step away from the digital echo chamber and spend more time in real political world.
There's no mayor in my unincorporated town. The nearest mayor to me is a rather large city 30 minutes away, that presides over 500,000 people, and getting time with him is more than a little challenging. The best I have are delegates and representatives, and let's stay, we don't see eye to eye on social issues. The next closest delegate was an anti-vaxing doctor. They don't really care a lot about what I have to say; they have enough idiots around to keep themselves ensconced.
This is not mine and unfortunately I don't remember where I heard it:
Fascists are the leftist second biggest enemy, with the first place going to leftists that 99% agree with them.
I don't think the tankies are wrong to fee grossed out, but that is just the nature of [class] war. Perhaps they should realize that they are indeed fighting in one and stop abandoning strategic parts of it (like showing up to elections local, state, and federal)
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Thank you for referring to them as regressives. I've been trying to normalize that for years. They are not conservatives anymore, if they ever were. They want to take our society backward.
You're right about regressives working together to achieve their end goal. But it's because they're in a cult. They're brainwashed. The left is not. Certainly not even remotely to the same degree. So we argue amongst ourselves. And in a way that's a strength. Cultist groupthink usually doesn't lead to good places. But yeah, if the left doesn't learn to groupthink on the macro issues, then we're just going to keep losing to fanatics.
The people that chose not to vote or flush their vote down the drain with a 3rd party are fools who couldn't see the big picture and what was really at stake. And now we're paying for their foolishness. Hopefully in the future they can learn from their mistake, but I'm not holding my breath. They seem to care more about their perceived moral superiority than the wellbeing of our nation and its citizens.
I think leftists spoiling their ballot or 3rd party would be better than just not showing up. It gives solid statistics about how the big tent party needs to pivot. Libertarians :throw up emoji: are a good example of this working and shifting the overton window in their favor.
I'm staunchly in the camp of "If we are not moving forward in our country, we are doing something wrong" progressives, and still voted for Kamala because she was the only option at the MOMENT for people like me who can see the bigger picture and that small victories can lead to major victories.
They have been regressives since reagan at the least!
I'm okay with cult think as long as it is a cult that is dedicated to giving poor people food and healthcare and a living wage! Sign me the fuck up!
@dastanktal@lemmy.ml This is a big part of what I am saying. Its find that you have criticisms with the approach, but you never mention an alternative; which is why I personally say that tankies are not serious people. Not voting has weakened our position greatly. Not voting means we have not grown the progressive wing in the DNC or even spun out a 3rd party. And I do mean this on local, state, and federal levels.
Its rather privileged of you to wait for a perfect candidate when you are not cold, hungry, and under siege. But [class] war is uncomfortable and your unwillingness to fight makes you a bad ally. I have said it before. Elections are just one front in the battle and abandoning it has been a strategic blunder.
Its fine to critic, but if you don't have an alternative or proposed amendment then you are just not serious about materially achieving goals.