this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2025
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There are other causes here.
They've been talking for a while about how the low participation in dating by Gen Z women is because they're tired of being the entire support system for men experiencing a loneliness epidemic.
It's a lot of pressure for the women to be under, and so they're withdrawing.
I'm guessing this is one of the driving forces as well. Lack of real, emotionally intimate human connections around them. Many men are quite fucked in that regard right now.
The flip side of that is vast numbers of Gen Z Men saying many Gen Z women are basically misandrists, who asked them to stop interacting with them unprompted, no more unwanted attention... so they did that, they stopped... and now all they see is IG and TikToks of Gen Z Women complaining that no one asks them out on dates anymore, no one is 6' tall with a 6 figure income becore the age of 30, and willing to worship them as a queen.
I am not saying this is any kind of objectively accurate to whatever degree, but I am saying that this is the very common, general vibe.
So, in that situation: Why bother?
Many men can actually be fulfilled just staying actually single, as in not even dating single, snd getting their own lives, finances, health, to a better place.
Yes this does though also mean that ... because we've just got less general, face to face socialization going on that... basically a larger than otherwise number of them will basically develop harmful, reinforcing neuroses, in harmful echo chambers... but at the same time, that applies to women as well.
This is what happens when you jam a broad economic collapse up alongside a highly digital and publicized modern media landscape that is tweaked all to fuck to highlight and push the most extreme version of everything... along with extremely mixed messaging that an only digitally socialized person recieves, but all as a firehose, that is very hard to make true sense of.
So... fuck this shit I'm out... social withdrawal... basically becomes a reasonable mental health improving move, even if it does leave you kinda socially stunted as compared to pre-internet generations.
amen. best thing i ever did for my mental, physical and financial health was to stop dating.
most women I ever dated were nothing but a total drain on my well-being, and did almost nothing to contribute to it positively. the only women who were ever really a net positive to me were female friends who encouraged me in my interests and passions and who shared those same ones with me.
Sadly I've never been able to date anyone who saw my passions as a positive... just a negative becuase often their soul interest in the world was getting money, attention, and generating drama out of our relationship so they could 'feel feelings'. So many ladies see relationships as nothing more than drug dispensing feel good machines (the same women who think all men want is sex... ironically). People need to realize that relationships are way more than that.
I remember so many times trying to have serious talk with my girlfriends and they just... got uncomfortable or just tried to sex me up to shut me up. They dind't want to deal with anything serious or adult. And these were adult women in their 30s. The only adult things they wanted to talk about was vacation plans or restaurants.
But it sucks, as happy as I am alone I want something more. I want a family and kids and to contribute to society in that way, but frankly, I don't really meet any women who want that. They just seem to want to be consumers first and foremost and productive members of society who care about more than themsevles... is not really on their wishlist.
I have been volunteering a lot, but it's really not the same. It's nice, but like working out, it doesn't feel like it's really going anywhere other than just staving off the inevitable decline as best I can. All my volunteer work just is a tiny drop of givnig a shit in the massive bucket of neglect that is our society as we amuse ourselves to death via social media and consumer trends.
I'm glad you're not because this is patently false. As soon as you get out of the internet you find young people dating is alive and well.
I mean, to a certain degree this is broadly true.
Like we have the numbers, younger generations are waaaay less likely to have had a relationship or sexual encounter by the same age/stage in their life as compared to previous generations, way more people just are relationship inexperienced.
This goes for both genders/sexes, though it is more prominent with younger men than women.
The overwhelming problem is that in the US, so much in person socialization is expensive, basically pay-gated, paywalled.
There are very few third places you can just hang out at for no cost. Public transit sucks or is non existant, cars are super unaffordable due to collapsing economy, and all our cities are designed for using cars to drive from place to place... so very few places are actually walk-navigable...
Everyone is increasingly overweight and overworked (or over homeworked, for students) and overstressed, so they can't or don't engage in group meet up hobbies or sports as much as they used to... and ironically even religiosity levels overall trending down means less people are going to church... all the traditional methods of getting socialization and expanding out a friend network in real life are withering.
So, the easier path is to get your socialization, of all kinds, primarily digitally.
But all those most common and popular ways of doing that are also massively manipulative with algos intentionally feeding you whatever ragebait slop appeals to you, personally.
It is very ironic that, as basically a 90s kid myself, very early tech adopter... my view of the vast majority of social media now is that it is basically a mentally harmful and addictive drug that people need to detox from... but when I tell younger people that, they say things like 'its not that deep bro, everybody has a (whatever) profile'.
There are lots of studies that show that very common levels of social media app usage... do actually reduce attention spans, spread dangerous misinformation, lower academic performance, cause negative self esteem by way of unrealistic standards, of beauty, lifestyle, wealth... brainrot is real, basically.
Like, I am all for the TikTok ban for kids. But also ban all short form video content for kids. Instagram, Youtube shorts, whatever.
This shit is melting peoples brains, it needs to be treated the same way you'd treat a drug epidemic.
We are now at the point where kids give so little of a fuck, have such tiny attention spans and need for constant, rapid fire stimulation... that half of adult Americans read below a 6th grade level, 20-30% of them read below a 2nd grade level, making them functionally illiterate... and thats just with Gen Z now mostly being in those young adult numbers, its gonna be even worse when Gen Alpha graduates and starts trying to enter society/the workforce.
EDIT:
This isn't even broadly unprecedented.
Look at Japan.
Hikkikomori.
The stagnant economy becomes overly financialized and corporatized and impossibly demanding... so people just drop out of it, or worse, kill themselves from the stress of trying to live up to its expectations...
And well then yeah, in person socializing broadly drops, relationship dynamics become strained and morph, birth rate plummets.
Give it 5 or 10 years and we'll have something resembling rent a boyfriend/girlfriend services and maid / stud cafes as well, as the stereotypified fascimile of socialization and having a real relstionship becomes a marketable product, and then industry.
Maybe a few areas will even properly legalize and regulate prostitution.
Granted, that'll be in any areas that remain even kind of blue.
The red areas will just go full theocrat and send you to jail for masturbating, but also re-legalize child marriage, and rework marriage laws into 'covenant marriage', where basically the woman functionally cannot divorce the husband.
In summary: cyberpunk hypercapitalism is in fact very very bad for healthy human relationship dynamics.
Yeah a lot of these trends are also easy to break down by economic class. the people suffering the most from the are poorer people. well off upper middle income people experience these problems far less proportionally. because they have the resources to get around the paywalls, and have the well-off parents with the money to pay for all the extra schooling and digital detoxing that is necessary for better life outcomes.
but for the middle class and below... they are cooked. the avenues to success and self-reliance are basically non-existence and and have been shrinking at start rates since the 90s and the school system is become a cesspool that any decent intelligent person wants nothing to do with.
Well I don't care about your anecdote about the US. That country is lost and young people feeling depressed and isolated is the least of your problems.
Out here in actual civilization though, tik tok youth drama is not representative of reality whatsoever.
Also you shouldn't go with US Default mode on Lemmy since you guys are a minority here. Most of us are European.
Children are the future of EVERY country. The future is looking bleak for young people in the US. Where do you live? Are young people unaffected by social media or what?
That's the thing though. It's hard for me to wrap my head around sometimes, but for lots of young people, social media IS their reality. This became even more true during the pandemic. We asked young people to go to school on a screen and pretend it was the same as doing it in person. Why wouldn't they have the same mindset about chatting, hanging out, flirting, dating, etc.? They don't see it as simulated socializing, it's just how they socialize.
You can use rethoric and anecdotes all you want but at the end of the day (literally) all you need to do is look out the window and see how many people are out socializing and fucking each other like rabbits.
Those Tik Tok girls complaining about men do so because they are outliers who can't get attention IRL. Simple as.
You reply to an anecdote (well really more of a logical argument but w/e) with an anecdote.
Astounding level of intellectual discussion going on here.
Well, you see, only his anecdote has any value, anybody else's is just an anecdote and therefore doesn't count.
Cool, I'm glad you're so enlightened and open minded as to uh ... not give a fuck about perspectives from places you aren't from.
As for you telling me how to use an internet message board... what more do you want from me?
I told you where I am from and what I am talking about.
I'd love to be able to move to Europe and get away from this fucking imploding hell hole of morons.
But I am broke and physically disabled after being the victim of numerous physical assaults.
Are any of ya'll accepting disabled American aslyum seekers, so we can easily enjoy your civilized world?
Didn't think so.
Focus on fixing your country and making it a decent place to live. That way you don't need to go anywhere. That's what we've been doing for decades, and it works.
You are the one that made this all about what does and doesn't apply to a specific area or country, into being a pro or anti whatever specific nationality discussion.
Like I don't disagree that we should fix our own country, it is our responsibility... but you could have just said 'Damn, is it really that bad in the States?' or something like that, without being dismissive and hostile for... basically the only reason is you're tired of hearing about America I guess?
???
Sorry I exist?
I also don't know what you want from me.
You gave your opinion about Tik Tok girls, I disagreed. That's it, typical internet disagreement, you can move on now.
I won't change my opinion on this matter so stop chasing after me like a homeless beggar.
You entirely derailed the topic by being dismissive of about 350 million people and just saying you don't give a fuck about them.
Thats not relevant or productive to attempting to seriously discuss broad social dynamics, at all, whatsoever.
And now you're just openly insulting me directly and personally, and you're now acting as if you are an authority figure who can direct the flow of this conversation.
You seem to have a bit of an anti-American/anti-homeless chip on your shoulder, and I don't much care for the sociopath vibes you're giving me, so I'll be blocking you now.
I've got no horse in this race but it appears that 'men should not be afraid to open up' articles and tweets were followed by 'men, we are not your therapist'.
🤷♂️
I'm a therapist who works almost exclusively with men. Here one pattern I've seen often:
It can be true both that men need to open up more and should not treat their partners as therapists. We all need support systems because no one person can always be available to give us everything we need. It's not wrong to confide in a partner, but if that partner is the only confidant it's precarious for both. And I want to emphasize this is not the fault of a man, or men as a community. This is the result of generations of conditioning from both men and women, and both men and women play a part in the solution. I also want to recognize that many of us don't have a network of people we could open up to even if we wanted to, and many more can't afford therapy.
If anyone reading this can afford therapy, I highly recommend it. It's a place to undo some of that conditioning, to sit with someone who's committed to listening, caring, and not judging.
I feel like you skipped over this part way too quickly. Myself and other men have been hearing things like "it's not manly to cry", "whining isn't going to do anything for you", "being weak is girly", and countless other things for my entire memorable life
And it's not just men telling me this. It's men, women, adults, my classmates, teachers and mentors.
It's not a good thing. And it's changing now, which is so good. But man hearing that from your earliest memories makes it really set in.
Thank you for expanding on that point. I meant it to be a "here's how we got here" before the rest of my "this is where we are today."
You're totally right, and any conversation about men's behavior at large should include the experiences you just described. Even though we didn't get ourselves into this situation - in that we didn't raise ourselves - we're the ones who will get us out.
🤔
That’s interesting… had never seen it put that way before…
It’s almost like telling men that it’s okay to show your feelings is bullshit lol
Do you think this therapist is trying to market therapy and increase his business? I also think the same 🤨
/j
Because they want us to open up, just not to them. T
The irony is so many anti-patriachical feminists, still desire the patriachy. They still want dominant tall wealthy men to romance then, but at the same time they claim to wait to tear these men down into some genderless socialist utopia... where they'd never want to ahve sex with any of the 'ideal' men they believe woudl exist in this society.
You can't have it both ways.