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Netanyahu Says It’s Antisemitic For Israeli Soldiers To Describe Their Own Atrocities (caitlinjohnstone.com.au)

submitted 1 day ago by als@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/nottheonion@lemmy.world

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[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 17 points 21 hours ago (6 children)

Is Israel trying to give retroactive justification to Germany ca. 1940?

[–] ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 21 hours ago

I think I get where you're going, but don't even go there. Nothing could ever justify any genocide; not the Holocaust, and not the Gaza one. The idea that anything could is frankly, grotesque.

[–] Karrion409@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

I get what you're trying to say but let's not go down that path. Genocide isn't justified no matter the circumstances.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism

Zionist antisemitism or antisemitic Zionism refers to a phenomenon in which antisemites express support for Zionism and the State of Israel. In some cases, this support may be promoted for explicitly antisemitic reasons. Historically, this type of antisemitism has been most notable among Christian Zionists, who may perpetrate religious antisemitism while being outspoken in their support for Jewish sovereignty in Israel due to their interpretation of Christian eschatology. Similarly, people who identify with the political far-right, particularly in Europe and the United States, may support the Zionist movement because they seek to expel Jews from their countries and see Zionism as the least complicated method (vis-à-vis ethnic cleansing or genocide) of achieving this goal and satisfying their racial antisemitism.

...

The French-Jewish journalist Alain Gresh noted that the antisemitic right-wing politician and Nazi collaborator Xavier Vallat said that "Jews would never integrate into France and that they had to go to Israel.

...

The historian David N. Myers wrote that "Leading white nationalists such as Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor liken their movement to Zionism, seeing it as a model for the kind of monoethnic purity they favor in [the United States]." Myers states that the "combination of pro-Israel and antisemitic sensibilities" is common within American politics due to the combined influences of the "Christian evangelical Right with its end-game theology", "archly conservative" Catholics, and the political ideology of Donald Trump.

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

If you generalize the stance away from Jews, "foreigners should go back to their home countries" is a very popular talking point for right-wing politicians, right-wing extremists and nazis.

So it's quite beyond me that anyone would be surprised that they apply the exact same argument to Jews as they use for pretty much every other minority that has a country that they can send them back to.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

they apply the exact same argument to Jews as they use for pretty much every other minority

I think the glaring note is how they consider "Jew" a minority, despite largely being white.

Who does and doesn't qualify as white is a constantly moving goalpost, depending on the attitudes of the current regime.

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Any group that can be grouped together into a small group is a minority. Don't have to have a separate skin colour for that.

Polish people in Germany are a minority. Turkish people in Austria are a minority. Protestants are a minority in the Republic of Ireland. Gay and trans people are a minority.

The defining factors of a minority in regards to this kind of debates are:

It's a category that can be used to group people together. The group doesn't have to be internally consistent but are lumped into this group from the outside (e.g. all "foreigners" can be lumped into one group, even though these people are from all sorts of different countries and backgrounds and might not even interact with each other all that much. Like, for example, a white Nazi from Russia is just as much a foreigner as a black hippie from Ghana, even though these two people really have nothing in common.)
The resulting group is smaller than the majority group.
Resulting from these facts, the larger majority has the political power to govern the minority group via laws and executive even against the will of the minority group (and often without even understanding the minority group)
And resulting from that fact, there needs to be some kind of protection against misgovernment against that minority group that isn't large enough to effect actual political change themselves.

[–] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago

I feel guilty for laughing.

[–] laserjet@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 8 hours ago

No. Collective punishment is a crime.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 hours ago

Only if you believe the racist idea that a nation, any nation, can represent everybody who is part of an ethnicity, i.e. and specifically in this case, that Mathematically the group "Jewish People" and the group "Israel and its supporters" are exactly the same group.

If however the group "Israel and it's supporters" is but a subset of the group "Jewish People", then the actions of the subset of the larger group do not justify punishing the wider group, same as, say, the actions of the Ku-Klux-Klan do not justify punishing everbody who is deemed White or the actions of ISIS do not justify punishing everybody who is Muslim.

I think the idea that the actions or victimization of some who are part of a broader group defined by nothing else than the ethnicity they were born into justifies a different treatment of everybody of the broader ethnic group, is THE most common racist trope there is, to the point that even liberals defend that shit (whilst, with zero irony or self awareness, calling it "positive").