this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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49
XMPP vs everything else (discuss.privacyguides.net)
submitted 1 day ago by underline960@sh.itjust.works to c/technology@lemmy.world
9 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/40286422

Is UX/UI and marketing really the reason XMPP lags behind Signal/Matrix/Telegram?

Matrix is going Freemium and WhatsApp is adding ads, which is sparking the annual "time to leave [app]" threads.

Users don't care that much about privacy, but they do care about enshittification, so XMPP not being built for it shouldn't be a problem.

Meanwhile, I've heard for years that XMPP has solved a lot of the problems that lead more popular apps to fail.

Is it really just a marketing/UX/UI problem?

If XMPP had a killer app with all the features that Signal/Whatsapp/Telegram has, would it have as many users?

If not, why does it keep getting out-adopted by new apps and protocols?

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[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Granted, it has been a couple years and it could be a bit better, but XMPP is a horrible, horrible protocol to work with. From the ground up.

Matrix might be bloated nowadays, but that's nothing to the horribleness of xmpp.

source: I wrote the first xmpp/matrix bridge in 2015

[–] tisktisk@piefed.social 4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

With the most expertise in this thread, may I ask your take on matrix vs irc horribleness?

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 20 hours ago

I never really did very much with IRC on a protocol level. I just know that it's ultra simple, and suffers similar problems as xmpp: it's not really meant for multidevices with a shared backlog.

I'm sure there are projects to enhance IRC with proper e2e encryption and chat sync, but you really want something that has modern usage in mind from the ground up. IRC and xmpp are just very 90s.

note: it's now been a couple years since I last took a deeper dive into xmpp and matrix, so things might have changed. But especially for xmpp, I can't really see how without breaking compatibility. The protocol is just very... special in its own way

[–] underline960@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I don't usually hear this opinion.

Most of the time, it's about how XMPP has everything you need without the boat of a Matrix server.

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 day ago

Eh, only if you squint reaaaaally hard

In practice, you will run in constant compatibility problems. Let alone barely functional multi device support

[–] mostlikelyaperson@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago

Conversely, I have seen this opinion expressed a few times. I can’t judge the accuracy but there seem to be more than a few people sharing it.