JupiterRowland

joined 2 years ago

Don't make it a scratch-built, stand-alone Fediverse server app.

Make it a third-party add-on for Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte that sources the profiles of channels that activate that add-on. I mean, you've gotta see the number of profile fields available on these three.

But, but, unlimited characters aren't purist, old-skool, original-gangsta microblogging! And understanding threaded conversations isn't purist, old-skool, original-gangsta microblogging either!

What do you want next, full HTML rendering support? Embedded in-line images? More than four options for polls?!

[–] JupiterRowland@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Go ahead. Try to force that upon Friendica that has called its instances "nodes" for almost 15 years now.

Or Hubzilla that not only calls them "hubs" but also resists any and all cultural or technological influences from anything that wasn't created by Mike Macgirvin.

Also what if I told you that (streams) and Forte call them "communities"? You know, like Lemmy's and PieFed's "subreddits"?

Mostly Hubzilla. Also (streams), WriteFreely and Lemmy for special purposes.

[–] JupiterRowland@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago

What really needs contributors are the streams repository and probably also Forte. They're very powerful, they're highly advanced, they're secure and resilient, they're basically what the whole Fediverse should be like, and they can blow not only Mastodon out of the water, but also Pleroma, Misskey and all their forks. But they only have half a maintainer at best because their creator has officially retired.

Allow me to elaborate:

These are the youngest offspring of a family of roughly Facebook-like Fediverse server applications created by Mike Macgirvin. They started in 2010 with Mistpark, later Friendika, now known as Friendica. The focus has never been on aping the UI/UX of something commercial and centralised, like Lemmy apes Reddit, but to create a replacement that's actually better. Toss out stuff that sucks, add features that could be useful like full-blown blogging capability, including blogging-level text formatting, and a built-in file space with its own file manager.

The next in the family was a 2012 Friendica fork originally named Red that introduced the concept of nomadic identity. As of now, and outside developer instances, nomadic identity is a feature exclusive to Mike's creations. Red became the Red Matrix, and in 2015, it was renamed and redesigned into Hubzilla, a "decentralised social CMS" and the Fediverse's biggest feature monster.

What followed was a whole bunch of forks, mostly development forks, only one of which was officially declared stable. This led to the creation of the streams repository in October, 2021. It's a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, but the first fork already lost many of Hubzilla's extra features and a lot of Hubzilla's connectivity.

The streams repository contains a Fediverse server application that is officially and intentionally nameless and brandless ("streams" is the name of the repository, not the name of the application), that is not a product, that is not a project, and that is just as intentionally released into the public domain, save for 3rd-party contributions inherited from Hubzilla that are under various free licenses.

While (streams), as it is colloquially called, may not have Hubzilla's wealth of features, it has to be one of the two most advanced pieces of Fediverse software out there. With its permissions system that is even improved over Hubzilla's, hardly anything can match it in safety, security and privacy. On top comes resilience through nomadic identity. Also, (streams) is more adapted to a Fediverse that's driven by ActivityPub and dominated by Mastodon whereas Hubzilla seems stuck in the mid-2010s in some regards.

At this point, it should be mentioned that while Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) can communicate through ActivityPub, none of them is based on it. AFAIK, Friendica is still based on its own protocol, DFRN, which is used by nothing else. Hubzilla is based on an older version of the Nomad protocol known as Zot6. (streams) is based on the current version of Nomad and also understands Zot6 for the best possible connectivity with Hubzilla.

So one of the latest development goals for the streams repository was the introduction of nomadic identity via ActivityPub, a concept that first appeared in 2023. I'm not sure how far this has been developed. But Mike created a new (streams) fork named Forte in August this year which had all support for non-ActivityPub protocols removed, probably also to cut down the maze of ID for everything which blew up on (streams) when support for FEP-ef61 was pushed to the release branch in July. Also, Forte has a name, it has a brand, it has a license, it has fully functional nodeinfo, and it is a project. Otherwise, Forte is identical to (streams).

Currently, there is only one Forte instance with one user, and that's Mike's private channel which mostly only his friends know about. Forte can be considered very experimental at this point, at least until Mike declares it ready for prime-time. After all, Forte has to handle nomadic identity via ActivityPub which, so far, is only proven to work under developer lab conditions at best.

However, there isn't much going on in terms of development. After the hassle that was getting malfunctioning (streams) back on track this summer, Mike officially retired from Fediverse development at the turn from August to September. He hasn't quit entirely, but he only works on (streams) and Forte sparsely. At the same time, the (streams) community was and still is too small to have a willing and able developer amongst themselves, and Forte has no community.

According to Mike, Forte could (and should) be "the Fediverse of 2030". It only needs more people working on it.

[–] JupiterRowland@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Here's some stuff that I'd meme about:

  • Mastodon users thinking the Fediverse is only Mastodon
  • Lemmy users thinking the Threadiverse is only Lemmy
  • Mastodon users thinking the Fediverse started with Mastodon
  • Mastodon being ridiculously underpowered in comparison to just about everything else, particularly Hubzilla and (streams)
  • Mastodon users wishing Mastodon (or, better yet, "the Fediverse") had certain features which are readily available just about everywhere outside of Mastodon
  • Mobile apps built against only Mastodon
  • Fediverse tools built against only Mastodon
  • Pleroma being lightweight
  • Mastodon's culture which Mastodon users are trying to force upon the rest of the Fediverse
  • Forkey antics such as "Speak as cat"
  • Forkeys in general
  • Forkeys inspired by Blåhaj vs Mastodon's mastodon plushie
  • Mastodon users still uploading videos to YouTube and not to PeerTube
  • Hubzilla's UI
  • Sharkey's infamously bad Mastodon API implementation
  • Friendica federating with everything, especially juxtaposed with some Mastodon users not wanting to federate with anything that isn't vanilla Mastodon
  • Hubzilla's ability to host Web pages
  • Nomadic identity
  • Bluesky's AT protocol seeming like a cheap knock-off of the Zot and Nomad protocols in parts
  • Self-proclaimed Fediverse experts who actually barely know anything about Mastodon and don't know anything about the rest of the Fediverse
  • Character limits
  • Threads perhaps wanting to EEE the Fediverse vs Mastodon actively trying to EEE the Fediverse right now
  • Mastodon's poster-side content warnings set in stone in what they want to be the Fediverse culture vs Friendica's, Hubzilla's, (streams)' and Forte's automated, reader-side content warnings which have been around for longer
  • Generally, the Fediverse being older than Mastodon
  • Lemmy only barely federating with everything else
  • /kbin essentially being dead
  • Permissions on Hubzilla and (streams)
  • "Conversations" on Mastodon vs conversations on Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams)
  • Certain points in the Fediverse history

Granted, I guess almost all of this will fly even over most c/Fediverse users' heads due to how detached Lemmy is from the rest of the Fediverse. But I don't really expect that many more Mastodon users to understand it, and those who do may be offended. Oh well.

 

I've noticed that there isn't a single Lemmy community, Mbin magazine etc. for Fediverse memes.

Is that because 99.9% of the Threadiverse came directly from Reddit, almost all Lemmy communities and *bin magazines are outposts of subreddits, and Reddit doesn't meme the Fediverse because hardly anyone on Reddit knows the Fediverse in the first place?

Is it, in addition, because especially Lemmy is too detached from the rest of the Fediverse to know what's memeable and to really understand memes about the Fediverse outside Lemmy?

Or is it simply because Fediverse memes go into other, more general communites/magazines where they simply drown in the flood of other threads?

I mean, I barely see any memes about the Fediverse anywhere on Mastodon. That may be either because your typical Mastodonian is not cut from meme-maker wood, or your typical Mastodonian doesn't know enough about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon, or next to nobody hashtags their meme posts. so they're impossible to find.

And so I thought that this is more common in the Threadiverse, seeing as how meme-happy Reddit is.

 

I'm asking because it is really difficult to find a place for discussing accessibility in Fediverse posts beyond the limits of any one Fediverse server application.

I'm looking for something

  • in the Fediverse
  • with technology that supports discussions
  • where users know the Fediverse beyond whatever software that particular place is running on
  • where users know something about how and why to make Fediverse posts accessible for e.g. blind users
  • where users take this topic seriously instead of seeing it as a gimmick
  • where it's likely enough for someone to reply to posts

Mastodon takes accessibility very seriously. But Mastodon users never look beyond Mastodon. Every other Mastodon user doesn't even know that the Fediverse is more than only Mastodon. Most of those who do have no idea what the rest of the Fediverse is like, including what it can do that Mastodon can't, and what it can't do that Mastodon can. Many Mastodon users even reject the Fediverse outside Mastodon, and be it because it "refuses" to fully adopt Mastodon's culture and throw its own cultures overboard. This would include using features that Mastodon doesn't have. You're easily being muted or blocked upon first strike if you dare to post more than 500 characters at once.

I myself am mostly on Hubzilla. Not only is Hubzilla vastly more powerful than Mastodon, it is also vastly different, and being older than Mastodon as well, it had grown its own culture before Mastodon came along. Still, three out of four Mastodon users have never even heard of the existence of Hubzilla, and many who do are likely to think it's basically Mastodon with a higher character count, extra stuff glued on and a clunky UI.

If you try to discuss Fediverse accessibility on Mastodon, you end up only discussing Mastodon accessibility with exactly zero regards, understanding or interest for what the rest of the Fediverse is like.

Besides, Mastodon has no good support for conversations and no real concept of threads. It is impossible to follow a discussion thread or to even only know that there have been new replies without having been mentioned in these replies. Thus, any attempt at discussing something on Mastodon is futile.

Hubzilla itself is great for discussions. It even has had groups/forums as a feature from the very beginning. In practice, however, it has precious few forums. The same applies to (streams) even more.

Discussing Fediverse accessibility is completely futile on both. They don't "do accessibility". To their users, alt-text is some fad that was invented on Mastodon, and Hubzilla and (streams) don't do Mastodon crap, full stop. In fact, their users hate Mastodon with a passion for deliberately, intentionally being so limited and trying to push its own limitations, its proprietary, non-standard solutions and its culture upon the rest of the Fediverse. At the same time, they don't really know that much about Mastodon, and they aren't interested in it.

Most of this applies to Friendica as well, but Hubzilla and (streams) users sometimes go as far as disabling ActivityPub altogether to keep Mastodon and the other ActivityPub-based microblogging projects out, and they don't care if Friendica ends up collateral damage. They hate the non-nomadic majority of the Fediverse that much.

If you try to discuss Fediverse accessibility on Hubzilla, nobody would know what you're even talking about, and nobody would want to know because they take it for another stupid Mastodon fad. They probably don't even understand why I accept connection requests from Mastodon in the first place.

Here on Lemmy, I've seen a number of dedicated accessibility communities. But they seem to be only about accessibility on the greater Web and in real life and not a bit about accessibility in the Fediverse specifically. I'm not even sure if Lemmy itself "does accessibility" in any way. And I'm not sure how aware Lemmy is of the Fediverse beyond Lemmy, /kbin and Mastodon.

Besides, these communities aren't much more than the admin posting stuff and nobody ever replying. So I guess trying to actually discuss something there is completely useless. If I post a question, I'll probably never get a reply.

The reason why I'm asking here first is because this community is actually active enough for people to reply to posts. But I'm not sure if it's good for discussing super-specific details about making non-Threadiverse Fediverse posts accessible.