Elevator7009sAlt

joined 10 months ago
[–] Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social 2 points 1 week ago

All the communities I mod are niche enough that I don't think every 24 hours is strictly necessary, though I am active enough to hit that requirement. Something big like !games@lemmy.world definitely needs that kind of requirement, but my quiet little communities are probably okay with twice a week, although I do check Lemmy about everyday anyways—more active users tend to be more likely to be mods.

[–] Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

On one hand I did often see toxicity downvoted on Reddit, and the very few times I saw spam it was correctly heavily downvoted.

I also often saw subs with "be civil!" as a rule frequently let comments that made good points but just had to throw in an unnecessary insult at the end, even when the person they replied to did not bring any kind of aggression at all. Or comments that were nothing but an insult, as long as the person they were insulting expressed an unpopular opinion. And I often saw unpopular opinions, expressed politely; that weren't "well it's just my opinion of course, you are free to disagree :) but I think it would be best for everyone if the Jews were all gassed," that were not obviously hateful opinions expressed in polite wording but that actually added to the discussion, get downvoted. I often hold majority opinions online so I am not usually the victim of this, but man did it feel bad seeing a reasonable, friendly person who maybe wasn't as anticorporate as everyone else or as informed about things get punished and shown disapproval in a way that should have been reserved for comments of "fucking idiot :)". Which actually received upvotes for being said to someone expressing a non-hateful opinion politely and reasonably.

I also see all that unkind behavior on Lemmy, though less often. Poke your head in enough "bad news" posts, especially "company does anticonsumer move" posts on !gaming@lemmy.world and you'll probably see some of what I am talking about. I have since learned to either just read the title, or click to the news article and avoid the comments like the plague if I do not want to be upset by "amazing explanation of a point you agree with followed by mean words to someone who wasn't being offensive," or "people online fighting again" or "comment whose only content is insults gets upvoted"

 

It seems https://lemmy-federate.com/ is just wildly popular with people suggesting it and eagerly biting on the suggestion they were given. It seems to just completely subvert the intention of not wasting any storage or space or even energy by federating out communities others did not ask for, or federating in communities nobody on the instance subscribes to, by having bots on instances follow communities. So my understanding is that even if nobody on example.instance cares about exampleCommunity@federate.org, example.instance still wastes resources on federating it in if someone submitted it here.

I do see that

If you want to add your instance to the list, you can login from top right. If you are a user, you can ask your instance admin to add your instance.

on this page. And I have heard of instances opting out from this. So I am curious: if your instance does not participate, what does that mean? No bots subscribing to communities on your instance so they go to everyone else? How does it work? I looked at https://lemy.lol/c/lemmyfederate@lemy.lol and https://lemmy-federate.com/ and https://github.com/ismailkarsli/lemmy-federate and did not see an explanation. On the list of instances on lemmy federate almost everyone seems to be enabled. So I'm curious how it works. Half of me thinks this chips away at the whole point of decentralization, just making sure every instance federates tons of stuff in regardless of actual user interest on the instance. The other half says people can do what they want with their instance, maybe I just do not understand how it works and it does not cause the problems I think it does, even if I'm right maybe most Lemmy users want it, and that it doesn't actually impact my life unless I decide to start being an instance host myself (and in that case then I would really need to know how it works, to figure out how my own instance would behave with lemmy-federate and what restrictions I could place on it).

Please let me know if my understanding is wrong, and how it actually works if so, because I have actually tried the provided resources by the lemmy-federate project to understand before coming here and sharing my understanding and disapproval of how it works if it works the way I think it does.

[–] Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Kind of surprised this is the take. Algorithms in general, just sorting by highest to lowest or whatever common problem that needs to be solved, aren't bad. "Algorithm" has become a dirty word mostly because of the stuff pushing short-form content over long-form content, outrage that generates engagement over something you would enjoy that doesn't enrage you enough to make you type fifty paragraphs and keep coming back to fight in the comments, etc. So I agree with the literal statement that algorithms aren't always bad.

But as for what you meant, I'm super surprised at all the people who want an algorithm to feed them content and aren't satisfied. I looked for the stuff I was interested in, subscribed, and am happy. When I run out of content I either log off and do something else or go seek out stuff I'm kind of interested in. In my most charitable possible assumption, people who want algorithms are probably a lot less suspectible to getting pulled in by outrage and scrolling all day, and just want to be able to discover cool stuff fast, and the algorithms somehow worked to show them the cool stuff. In my experience I had to strictly stick to my Home feed with just stuff I subscribed to on Reddit to not see outrage porn, could never poke my head into Popular or anything without seeing some outrage sub like r/noahgettheboat or /iamatotalpieceofshit. And then they started forcibly sorting my Home feed by Controversial… yep. Stopped regularly browsing there really fast.

I am just really wary of asking for algorithms back because I really don't want the Fediverse to become another place catered towards outrage porn for max engagement. I really want users to have options if this is implemented, so as not to force this algorithm on users like myself who like the "chronological order of stuff you purposely followed only" algorithm. And for that option to not be taken away from me in an effort to "drive growth!" and all that.

I don't want to refuse others a good thing just because it's not for me, but I also have been burned by social media algorithms that were once nice chronological, and later became catered towards outrage and showing you content you never signed up to see without having an option to switch back to chronological and opt out of having RandomInfluencerYouDontFollow in your feed. Looking at you, Instagram. I signed up with my elementary school classmates, liked chronological feed, liked having Explore just be friends of friends… I still only follow people I know in real life but now Explore is a bunch of controversial memes, people selling stuff, and influencers who want me to form a parasocial relationship with them. This is also what my regular feed, which used to just show me chronological order posts only from people I follow, turns to once I scroll past maybe 7 posts my friends made. Have not fully deleted but also haven't touched the app in months now.

I guess the real solution is giving people options and not taking them away because you decided to go public and need maximum eye-on-advertisement time. Hopefully Lemmy stays open source and different instances stay popular, so in case someone does try to take it public we can all flee to different servers and keep talking.

 

This is the second time I have been hit with what is essentially "no you can't promote a Lemmy community here, that is against our self-promotion rules." (First was r/otomegames mods not wanting to help with a Fedi otome community or even letting me advertise outside of a Self-Promotion Sunday weekly post nobody looks at. !otomegames@ani.social for the curious. This incident is for promoting !infinitynikki@discuss.tchncs.de, and it feels especially bad because the official, non-Fedi community has official presence on freaking TikTok and posts partnered creators on Discord with Twitch streams and the like, but I can't show a little Reddit alternative for people who want to move off of it. Guess I'd have to start streaming and post exclusively to Fedi or something to get up. Pisses me off.)

possibly non-productive frustrationI get it, I really do. Self-promotion restriction helps prevent a community from being flooded with spam of people trying to get your eyeballs to look at THEIR super unique and totally different from the millions of others out there, I promise stream, or YouTube channel, or whatever is the latest hot thing that people will spam you about. On another hand though, it also makes it much harder to drag people out of a big corporate platform where outrage is algorithmically boosted to maximize engagement, and over to here where outrage is not given an unfair boost and it's a lot easier to just look at new posts and close the site for the day. And I recognize it's a bit hypocritical of me to use streamers as an example, because everyone, including me here, thinks they are just the little guy trying to get eyeballs onto something relevant to that community—I think my case is special too, because of blah blah FOSS good and blah blah not trying to get you to buy or make a parasocial relationship with me, but others probably have their own arguments too that have to be unilaterally shut down to prevent everyone clamoring for exceptions and opening the gates to self-promotion hell with no actual discussion of the topic the community is supposed to be about.

It's just really, really frustrating. I can't siphon people off the big corporate platforms because rules against it, so I have to sometimes use that big corporate platform myself to find content for here or to talk about the topic—because nobody's here to talk, because I can't promote it somewhere with lots of people, because those are the big corporate platforms that won't let me advertise. To be fair, I can't advertise in general, but it still feels shitty and anticompetitive, even if the rule's genuine intention was not about forestalling competition and more about not getting overrun by LOOK AT MY ART/STREAM/PLAYTHROUGH/REVIEW.

Have any Lemmy communities here grown without help from mods on a bigger site? (I know the Datahoarder community moved with the official help of r/datahoarder mods, good on them, I'm curious about communities who didn't get that kind of support.) How did they do it?

[–] Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

What do you mean you can't promote him? You're very positive about him to the point it seems you really want me and other Lemmy users to go pay attention to his stuff, and are willing to make posts to do so. That counts as promotion.

Thanks for answering my question about whether he is supposed to be mainstream enough that I am supposed to know who he is without explanation. Unfortunately, there are probably plenty of YouTubers who have higher subscriber counts than the count of total active Lemmy users, most of who are totally irrelevant to me and who are still not someone everyone who does not live under a rock would be aware of. I'll assume he counts as one of them. I am glad you enjoy his content enough to advertise for him on Lemmy, but it's coming off less as a person sharing their enthusiasm and more as an advertisement I really do not want to see. I think that is the vibe everyone else is picking up as well, and why you are getting a lot of downvotes on this post.

[–] Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social 0 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I feel like you just ignored my question to go full-in on promoting whoever this person is, which makes me feel extra resistance to checking it out, on top of my already-existing aversion to watching videos.

[–] Elevator7009sAlt@ani.social 0 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Who-like? Am I just out of the loop and "Dani" is some big name most gamers know, or is the description making a bad assumption that we all know who "Dani" is?