I always found the one child policy weird, why wasn't it a two child policy to maintain population stability?
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There should be no such policies at all I would say. It's not on the government to decide how many children people should have.
Isn't it? If the population is growing too fast to be sustainable, who else can regulate this? Having many children is a disease of poor countries, having to few children is a disease of rich countries.
You can prevent people from having many children by taking away privileges. Problem is it doesn't work so well the other way around. But would you find it equally wrong to stimulate child birth though giving privileges to families with children? Both are regulation to adjust behavior. Where I live we have incentives for people to get children, and we have free fertility treatments.
Would it be wrong if we had too many children to for instance remove free fertility treatment if you already have a child?
I don't think it's quite as black and white as you suggest. And almost ALL governments of developed countries have policies that influence how many children people get. Except those policies are to stimulate people having children rather than preventing it.
I just don't see the one child policy as a good idea in any way because it's too extreme. If they had to have a policy on this to stabilize the population, it should have been a 2 child policy. And realistically at the time they introduced the policy, the global population was increasing at a unsustainable speed, and the same was the case for China, and they had to do something to prevent people from having an average of about 5 children, simply to help the people get out of poverty. But they went to far IMO.
One Child Policy went so fucking extreme. My mom told me that when she had me in her, her number 1 fear was that the government will find out about the pregnancy and force her to abort me.
Also she got sterilized for giving birth to me.
It's this fact that I feel so emotionally attached to my mother even though she's emotionally abusive to me, because I'm grateful for how much she sacrificed so I could be alive.
I mean see in Vietnam, for example, at least they didn't do thing by force, they only use social pressure instead of being PRC and fucking sending government agents to force women to have abortions.
Jesus christ.
Glad to see you here, I was actually thinking about your situation when I was reading the part about "hidden kids."
Every step the Chinese government has made here is absurd. Then again, it seems many politicians really don't see the rest of us as humans, just as a mass to control. I love to see that the young women are like, "Yeah, no, fuck all of this. We're done with you telling us what to do."
force her to abort me.
Wow I didn't know they did that! That's horrible.
Also she got sterilized for giving birth to me.
Goddam, they were absolutely ruthless!
I think congratulations for being alive is in order.
It may have been OK to have a policy, but this kind of enforcement is absolutely not IMO.
I thought it was only about losing privileges like the ability for the children to get a higher education.
I thought it was only about losing privileges
That's the Vietnam's version, it's much tamer.
ability for the children to get a higher education
About that... there's the Hukou thing that, even after my parents paid the fine for having me (they had to pay the fines otherwise I don't get legal papers), because of the Hukou System, I had Taishan (rural) Hukou even tho I was born in Guangzhou (a city), and my parents live in and work in Guangzhou... because Taishan is where my parents are from so kids inherit their parents Hukou status
So because my Hukou was not in Guangzhou, my older brother and I weren't allowed to go to public school in Guangzhou (this is the Hukou thing, it's the same regardless of whether I was born or not, my older brother would not have been allowed to go either way), so migrant parents such as my parents paid for these privately run schools so their kids could go to school, and my mom said its worse than Public Schools.
Some migrant parent leave their kids behind in their village to be cared for by relatives (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-behind_children_in_China).
If my parents didn't pay the fine for the One Child Policy violation, I'd be stateless, like these people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heihaizi
(Edit: that means I wouldn't have been able to leave the country since without legal identity, no passport, no country would give me a visa, I would not have been able to come to the US with my family)
That means no long distance train tickets or getting a legal job. Idk if education is even possible without legal identity. Probably get stuck working in farms in one of my parents villages (dad and mom are from different villages)... and in China, there wasn't much machineary to do farm work, its all manual, its tough. (Nowadays there might be some farmers that have access to / be able to afford machinary to help with it)
Absolutely horrible, it's sad anyone had to live through that. I hope you are OK now.
Because the point was to curb population growth AND fuck future generations. Makes one wonder why such policies were viewed favorably by the west at large.
The principle of doing it yes, the way of doing it no.
Would you accept it if your government says how many children you must have?
How is that relevant? The problem in China now is that the policies worked for setting the number down, but now it doesn't work for setting it up.
And it's far from the government just "saying" so. The policy was enforced with privileges for those that followed it, and loss of privileges if you didn't.
Notably whether your child would be able to get an education. And that shit actually works whether I would want to follow it or not.
I'm not Chinese, but my wife is and we lived in China for the first decade of our marriage, having 3 kids from 2008-2014.
When my wife was pregnant with our first she had an entry level job in local government. We both had to have a meeting with her boss and sign a pledge that we wouldn't have any further children. Doing so meant she got full access to paid maternity leave, and her work paid all the hospitals bills.
Before our second was born we'd already decided she was going to stay at home and look after the kids, rather than returning to work while her parents cared for them (as she was raised), so she quit that job.
The one child policy didn't affect us atall after that. I always heard rumours of forced sterilization out in the countryside, but in our post-2000s experience there was none of that.
I also had a student who's dad had a cushy government job that he lost because they wanted a second child.
You are non-Chinese?
Probably got treated differently then, since you are a foreigner.
I'm the second-born son of my parents, my mom told me that when she had me in her, she had to do everything to hide the prgnancy.
She was from Taishan 台山 and went to Guangzhou 广州 to find work, and she got pregnant there, and I think she said she was supposed to go back to her village every X months to check for pregnancy, she just refused to go back. She really wanted a 2nd child, she was afraid government agents would take her and forcibly abort me.
But anyways, here I am, alive...
(Btw if my parents had a daughter first, they could've gotten an exeption since they're rural and can have a 2nd child, but since I have an older brother, not older sister, there was no exemption)
I think the failure to enforce the laws was because of jurisdictional issues, and maybe they found out about the pregnancy too late.
So yea I have existential crisis when I think about it. Like: I wasn't supposed to exist
My mom keeps telling me that story over and over again to make me feel guilty and make me feel grateful for her, it's a very effective emotional manipulation, because it sort of worked, I feel so emotionally attached that sometimes I wake up and be like: mom pls love me. idk why must be the emotional abuse and I got trauma bonded.
Anyways, after I was born, according to my parents, I was "safe" from termination. When she was giving birth to me, that was the most vulnerable time, government agents could walk in any time and ended me.
But I didn't have a legal identity until my parents paid the fine.
The legal identity was very crutial to emigration, I mean can't even get a visa if I can't be proven to be my parents child.
Funny thing is: my mom was afraid the US Consulate would get suspicious and doubt my origins, since One Child Policy is in place, so mom was worried the officer would be like: how the hell did you manage to have 2 sons? and like suspect trafficking or something, so mom just coached me on how to answer the questions... I'm like 5-7 I think.
I was like: wtf mom, I know who you are, I know who my dad is 🤣
Anyways, the consulate never gave any troubles, I never got asked.
Does my mom think I'm stupid or something. Of course I know who my parents are, lmfao.
But the sterilization 結紮 is real. Mom told me she got sterilized as punishment for having me.
I feel bad for her.
But not really.
Mom joked she wanted a 3rd child because I "misbehaved"... so she could "pay less attention to me"... so yea maybe a good thing then.
Pretty sure my older brother also didn't like me, he probably would've loved to see CCP abort me so he could have 100% of my parents attention.
Edit: Also my mom was supposed to have an IUD after giving birth to my older brother, but then she went to Guangzhou and that IUD was never in place. That's how I even exist.
That's so mind blowingly fucked up, I don't even find the words to express my wtf-ness. But very insightful, thank you!
I hope you're doing well now and... perhaps have some distance to them o.O
You mean Parents?
Unfortunately I lack the skills to be independent and I'm still living with parents... 🫠
(Pls don't judge me lol, my mom caused me severe depression and separation anxiety)
My older brother is still with us...
But he's about to get into some arranged marriage thing (arranged by mom) so I think he's about to move out.
(And yes, you read that right. Arranged marriage in 2025. What the hell lmao... but not surprising, its cultural and also because my brother sucks at socialization. I overheard the conversation about visas and going back to China to meet a girl that mom and some of my mom's friend of friend got them introduced to each other on Wechat)
Would never judge. You live in a rough environment, in a tough situation, but are still able to reflect. That's more than a little something!
I guess all I can do is wish you the best! Keep your head up.
I've long thought this policy will ultimately lead to China going to war and where they once again bring home foreign brides for their soldiers. It'll make a war with Taiwan palatable for all their young, single, lonely men.
I don't think even doing that now will save the them. They'll have to bring in slave labor or stolen children to plug the gap, and it will have to be millions and millions of people.