Kai winn could have just pushed Dukat into the fire, Sisko is a war criminal
You can't change my mind
this post was submitted on 24 Dec 2025
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- It was a bit stupid of her to try using poison to outsmart Dukat rather than just shoving him into the fire pits. But she was a coward, and poison is a coward’s weapon. So, really, no surprise there.
- Dukat was no longer a member of the Dominion at that point, nor the Cadassisn military, so it’s just murder, not a war crime.
I'm talking about bombing the planet full of Maquis colonists (civilians).
Also, falsifying evidence to rope a civilization into a war.
I’m talking about bombing the planet full of Maquis colonists (civilians).
well, nobody actually died (civilians), as they evacuated, and the maquis colonists and cardassians just switched planets as a result. does that count as a war crime in the 2370s in the Federation? I dunno.
Also, falsifying evidence to rope a civilization into a war.
not sure if that technically counts as a war crime. certainly a crime, but a war crime? dunno about that, either
the maquis colonists and cardassians just switched planets as a result. does that count as a war crime in the 2370s in the Federation? I dunno.
Forced resettlement with the purpose of removing a certain group is people from a certain area are generally known as Ethnic Cleansing, which is legally distinct from genocide today (but I hope not in the 24th century). It's also a crime against humanity and against the Geneva conventions.
It wasn't a certain group though, it was all Federation citizens being forced to leave a planet which was agreed in negotiations with Cardassia to have been rightful Cardassian territory which was illegally occupied by the Federation in the first place.
Federation citizens ARE a group though. Let me rephrase this a bit more offensively and modern day:
it was all Armenian citizens being forced to leave a land which was agreed in negotiations with Turkey to have been rightful Turkish territory which was illegally occupied by Armenia in the first place.
I mean, the planet was literally made uninhabitable for humans. The toxic atmosphere is indiscriminate as to what polity they are a citizen of.
well, nobody actually died (civilians), as they evacuated, and the maquis colonists and cardassians just switched planets as a result. does that count as a war crime in the 2370s in the Federation? I dunno.
... using chemical weapons (which is a war crime now), on civilians (warcrime now) ,
Also, "it turned out that way" great. What if there was a teleporter malfunction? what if the evacuation plan didn't go well? "It turned out that way" because the writers didn't want sisko to seem like the bad guy as an excuse.
… using chemical weapons (which is a war crime now), on civilians (warcrime now) ,
eh... he didn't use the weapons on the civilians, he triggered their atmosphere to change, making the planet uninhabitable to humans. the intent was never to harm any of them, just to force them off the planet. these details are important. had he used a chemical weapon directly on the civilians, with the intent to cause them harm,, that would be a war crime.
see, we're trying to apply contemporary mores and rules to a situation that couldn't possibly exist now. so... while I agree that it was a reprehensible act, does it rise to the level of a war crime? maybe, but the fact that it didn't - nor was it intended to - harm anyone, should be considered.
eh… he didn’t use the weapons on the civilians, he triggered their atmosphere to change, making the planet uninhabitable to humans.
Oh ok, as long as he didn't throw the chemicals in their face, making the air they breathe toxic and fatal does not count as a chemical weapons attack.
Just so I understand, how far away does the mustard gas have to be to kill you but not count as a chemical attack on a civilian?
What difference does this level of technicality make for someone who would breathe air that would kill them?
see, we’re trying to apply contemporary mores and rules to a situation that couldn’t possibly exist now.
we have nuclear weapons that can render our planet inhospitable. Using them to do so would be considered a war crime.
Also, the federation is meant to be morally superior to us. Also, the metagenic weapon in chain of command is outlawed technology, because it destroys all life on a planet. they have to bust their asses to stop the cardassians from having access to that kind of weaponry, so Sisko turning around and doing the same to the maquis, while there are civillians on a planet , is absolutely something unnacceptable by any timeframe's moral standards.
but nah, darker and edgier 90s time, Sisko did nothing wrong
Oh ok, as long as he didn’t throw the chemicals in their face, making the air they breathe toxic and fatal does not count as a chemical weapons attack.
well, Sisko didn't use a chemical weapon-- he released radiogenic particles (trilithium) into the upper atmosphere which irradiated the planet. he also provided the inhabitants ample time to escape its effects. it didn't make the air poisonous. technically, it was Eddington who used a biological weapon one the Cardassian planet which did make their air toxic, and Sisko was responding to that.
see, you're treating this like a black-and-white situation when it's all very morally gray. and I'm not arguing what Sisko did was right or moral-- I'm trying to say that you're trying to define a complex situation through the narrow lens of a legal technicality, and that we would need to know more about both Federation law and Sisko's intent and foreknowledge before making a judgement.
so: is what Sisko did a crime? probably. would the Federation technically consider it a war crime? I don't think we know enough about the circumstances to say.
well, Sisko didn’t use a chemical weapon-- he released radiogenic particles into the upper atmosphere which irradiated the planet. he also provided the inhabitants ample time to escape its effects. it didn’t make the air poisonous.
Shit, my bad, I didn't realise that using a nuclear weapon instead was that much better for people when they would die from it. You're right, this COMPLETELY changes the situation, since it changes the type of weapon from a Weapon of Mass Destruction that turns a planet inhospitable to a Weapon of Mass Destruction that turns a planet inhospitable.
technically, it was Eddington who used a biological weapon one the Cardassian planet which did make their air toxic, and Sisko was responding to that.
So... Sisko behaved with the same level of disregard for sentient life as a terrorist? Who is a bad guy that we need to chase down at all odds and do whatever we must to catch?
see, you’re treating this like a black-and-white situation when it’s all very morally gray.
Not really. Attacking civilians is bad. If you're mad at Israel for bombing hospitals, bombing planets with nukes that would kill the civilian inhabitants is also bad.
Again, the federation is meant to be better than us. It's explicitly stated multiple times through TNG. Compare and contrast the shit Sisko gets up to and the speech he himself gives to eddington with Picard's speech about "the first duty of every starfleet officer..,"
Shit, my bad, I didn’t realise that using a nuclear weapon instead was that much better
he didn't use a nuclear weapon, either.
since it changes the type of weapon from a Weapon of Mass Destruction that turns a planet inhospitable to a Weapon of Mass Destruction that turns a planet inhospitable.
turning a planet inhospitable isn't the same as trying to kill all of the civilians living on that planet. and - yes - that does make a difference.
So… Sisko behaved with the same level of disregard for sentient life as a terrorist?
he didn't do that, either. he very well knew the maquis could easily evacuate, and knew they had a new planet to resettle afterward. and, before he fired the torpedos, he gave them every bit of warning.
Not really. Attacking civilians is bad.
nobody's arguing that here, and I've already stated - several times - that I agree.
but the argument is "is it a war crime?". and you really haven't made your case. I remain unconvinced.
is it a crime-- I already said that it probably is. should it be a war crime. probably. but is it a war crime? maybe, but I don't think we know enough to say. that's a question of Federation law, and we can't know the answer here.
One of the better episodes imo.
Would Sisko have ever been trapped in the delta quadrant?
ooo... I dunno. there are a lot of factors to consider. The Ocampa situation, the interactions with the Kazon... Sisko & Co.'s proficiency in dealing with The Caretaker and his tech...
honestly? all I know is that it would have gone very differently. possibly differently enough that the Caretaker's Array's dself-destruct might not have gotten damaged, or, another way, that they didn't retrieve their crewmembers from Ocompa, or were killed by the Kazon...
I would like to have seen that play out, though.
He's not a way criminal because 1 he wasn't at war and 2 space jesuses are allowed to destroy planets every now and then, as a little treat
Ah ok, just sparkling state sponsored terrorism, like Britain in the 70s in Ireland.
space jesuses are allowed to destroy planets every now and then, as a little treat
Gold
Neither was Jesus