this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2025
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The worst-case scenario is now a possible one: European troops fighting off an invasion largely alone.

It’s by no means clear the Europeans would succeed. Romanian and other European officials at the exercise in Cincu, about 260 kilometers (162 miles) north of Bucharest by road, voiced concerns about how long it would take for NATO allies to make it to the front.

French four-star General Philippe de Montenon said he’s confident Europe could prevail, even without the US on side. “The direction of history is a progressive disengagement of the United States from the European continent,” he said.

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[–] Archer@lemmy.world 56 points 3 days ago (2 children)

10 comments and the pro Russia bots are already here

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Such is life currently: hyperbolic questions in ironic comments like " have you proof about Ruzz agression, because the West..." etc.

Smh, about the contrast between their potential to embrace a grand selfdeception and the arrogant stubbornness to look away from the invasive destruction and killings Shahed drones cause on a daily bases for more than a thousand days.

[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Some of those kinds of comments are typically from terminally online Marxist-Leninists.

[–] TheFrirish@jlai.lu 38 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Let the comments here be a friendly reminder to people that they should block and boycott the .ml instance

[–] ameancow@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago

I love how it occurs so naturally that by the time I come into a post that talks about Russia and Ukraine, half the posts are already limited and I can't expand threads because people replying are ones I've already blocked in other posts for being absolutely developmentally challenged.

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[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 children)

NATO/EU needs to start moving resources more into place. This will cause putin to have to move troops out of Ukraine to balance.

[–] Aljernon@lemmy.today 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Even along the Ukrainian border, the Russian troops guarding the frontier are their least capable units full of troops typically serving their 1 year conscription. Putin knows that NATO lacks the capacity for a Sneak Attack. Unless Poland orders full mobilization, the Russians won't move more than token forces to the border.

[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

NATO won't attack, but putin is paranoid. I doubt he'd be able to ignore a buildup of NATO troops on his doorstep. And NATO needs to deploy hordes of drones and drone defenses as practice anyway.

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That is for the best. The US is a hostile power, and allowing it to embed enemy troops or sabotage NATO operations should not be permitted. Europe is better off without the traitorous Trump Regime.

It sucks that it has to be this way, but to deny the intent and nature of the current United States, is to invite disaster.

[–] TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago

While it may make Nato less credible in terms of military assets and industrial capacity if the US were out, it would make Nato more defensible in moral terms if the whims of Donald Trump weren’t a cornerstone of the Alliance

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Meanwhile USA is fully prepared to comfort Russia.

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[–] HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 2 days ago (25 children)

Thankfully Russia can't afford to stretch themselves much more. I implore them to try something it shouldn't take much to fuck them at this point.

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[–] echodot@feddit.uk 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

It’s by no means clear the Europeans would succeed. Romanian and other European officials at the exercise in Cincu, about 260 kilometers (162 miles) north of Bucharest by road, voiced concerns about how long it would take for NATO allies to make it to the front.

Those two things are not synonymous.

Romanian military are concerned it would take allies time to get to the front (I.e. it would take time for NATO to mobilise in the event of an unanticipated invasion of Romania). However firstly that doesn't mean victory wouldn't be ultimately achieved (allied forces had a bad time of it during the first part of the second world war, but ultimately were victorious) and secondly it assumes that Russia would be able to rally its forces (what forces) and initiate a surprise invasion despite Europe heavily monitoring Russian military activity. Which all seems unlikely.

I'm also unclear about why 260 km is considered an insurmountable distance. In an emergency that distance could be covered in a couple of hours, (I'm assuming that liberation forces and not required to obey the speed limit) presumably everyone would be going the other way in any case.

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[–] plyth@feddit.org 11 points 3 days ago (2 children)

French four-star General Philippe de Montenon said he’s confident Europe could prevail, even without the US on side.

This is discussed too rarely. Does anybody know of a source that makes a reliable comparison?

[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Only the former head of the US forces in NATO, Ben Hodges , has oftentimes said similar lines afaik, like here :

Europe should “quit whining” about the threats it faces and “act like the superpower” that it is, according to a former senior US army officer.

Generally, he's quite confident about Europe defending itself.

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[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

Well, France has the second or third largest/most powerful individual Navy in the world, and Russia has severely diminished trained personnel, so unless China enters it would be a one sided massacre in Europe's favor.

Probably why Russia has worked so hard on the south of Ukraine to secure the sea border even losing territory in the north.

The issue is when China enters, and whose side they will be on. Does Xi Jinpooh see more profit in helping his cabal of friendly dictators or would he just carve out a slice of the Russia Pie?

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I can't see China wanting to get involved in the war. Wars are expensive, and the outcome is not guaranteed.

Besides China has improving relations with Europe, what is the point in risking that?

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

China is invading like 4 territories every day of the week and they attempted to covertly build a partially underground military citt in Beijing 10x the size of the US Pentagon, in addition to being the origin country of the vast majority of cyberattacks.

They vetoed the only Israel Palestine ceasefire agreement that the US would agree to last year and endorsed the bloodthirsty Trump admin, openly promoting him with their TikTok platform.

They bankroll North Korea and Iran.

If War incarnated on earth he would be taking notes from Pooh Bear.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, maybe War has incarnated, riding a RED horse.

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[–] nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 days ago (18 children)

it would really be something else if they fought them off successfully and the united states looked like pussies and assholes

[–] REDACTED@infosec.pub 9 points 2 days ago

They already do. US is currently the only country pushing for surrender (note, it's not just Ukraine, peace plan forces stuff from US too, including industry help and money) while negotiating with terrorists. It will take a very long time for me to see US in the same light I used to. Imagine US surrendering to ISIS. Beyond humiliating.

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

How much can one bullet cost?

[–] myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago

By US support, they just mean Trump telling them to do whatever Daddy Putin wants.

The US can go fuck itself with limited support!

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