Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
On the one hand this is how it’s supposed to work. Free speech as a legal concept in the U.S. only protects you from the government…
…on the other hand it would be really helpful if there were a list of companies that were firing folks for being critical of Charlie Kirk…
…you know…for reasons…
Probably easier to compile a list of those supporting free speech. Spoiler alert: there's not many.
That's what free speech is around the world, not just in America.
But "Free Speech" is often referred to as though it is some magical incantation in the USA. It may be my ignorance, but I haven't come across anything to imply it's seen that way in other countries.
Thr UK has the same thing as America. Australia on the other hand, for example, doesn't have as many of those rights. https://legalclarity.org/does-australia-have-freedom-of-speech/
Free speech is protection from the government. People, especially here on Lenny it seems, (not saying you personally, just in general) have a highly gross misunderstanding of the basic law when they claim free speech is anything else.
The US being a younger nation is probably why you hear it more from Americans. Our rights are new, relative to the most of the world. Plus US culture is everywhere.
Thr UK has the same thing as America
Do they? I wasn’t actually sure. I thought the government was cracking down on anti-genocide speech.
Basically the same.
The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), signed on 4 November 1950, guarantees a broad range of human rights to inhabitants of member countries of the Council of Europe, which includes almost all European nations. These rights include Article 10, which entitles all citizens to free expression. Echoing the language of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights this provides that:
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises
UK is not In the eu.
No kidding.
So where does the clampdown on anti-genocide speech land wrt this?
Freedom of speech is often conflated with non-discrimination.
i.e. A grocery store clerk mentioning politics om the job. In a non-"at-will" state and with a non-disgusting contract between employee and employer, the employer never comes under "Free speech" violations, but discrimination ones.
Even in such a mix of specific circumstances (the state, the employee and the employer being sane rule-wise), there'd still need to be a counterexample - i.e. would the same happen if the person held a slightly different belief or posessed a slightly different shade of skin, set of chromosomes or some other discriminator.
It's a higher ask than a "Free Speech" card, but it is a protection. (Some restrictions may apply).
Yeah Facebook posts have been getting people fired for years. Just a few weeks ago someone at my job got fired for talking shit about the company on Facebook along with posting pictures. They framed it as he was fired for having his phone on him when it's supposed to be in your locker, but obviously it wasn't that.
There’s a difference between the legal concept as it relates to the constitution and the broader ethical principle on which the first amendment was based.
We can still talk about the ideal of free speech outside of the government. In fact, this ties into the myth of “free enterprise” which suggests that everything companies do is about freedom but everything the government does is about tyranny. This is obviously nonsense but we’re so indoctrinated to it that we rarely question it fully.
These are legitimately funny. Really picking the best ones to highlight. "Ashley Creekbaum allegedly commented on Instagram: “I think he should be forced to carry that bullet in his body. That bullet has a right to be there because it’s a gift from god.”"
This is a great example of how we don’t live in a democracy for a large portion of our waking life. Our workplace isn’t a democracy, unless we are really lucky.
unless you fight to make it so, for the unions make us strong.
any reply regarding "anti union laws" should keep in that I'll reply that it means we need to fight more.
STUPID People! If they DIDNT want to Be Fired they SHOULD have just Publicly held The SAME Views as Charlie and told people that GAYS AND TRANNIES AND BLACKIES AND MEXICANTS deserve to DIE HORRIBLE PAINFUL DEATHS VIA Public Execution! THEN their Jobs would be SAFE!
If they DIDNT want to Be Fired they SHOULD have just Publicly held The SAME Views as Charlie
I'm so confused. Is it okay to support political violence or not? Are we firing people for supporting Trump and Kirk now?
BigMacHole is famously a MAGAposting parody account
The hell is a parody account?
/s
I know, I was riffing off of it. The answer is that it's all hypocrisy.
Is the "lethal injection for the homeless people" guy fired yet?
He apparently apologized, though I have not read what exactly he said.
"When someone show you who they really are, you should believe them".
General advice:
The right really are a bunch of snowflakes.
You are free to agree with the Nazi but not question his motives.
Found one of the groups hell bent on doxxing anyone they don't like and getting them fired. Free speech under attack by the right as usual
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1155050949879089/
I'd be a shame if the person running that got tattled-on to her own employer...
Edit: btw anyone who googles the prominent name posting on that FB group will find she very publicly works as a real estate agent whose company could be contacted to alert them to her violent nature - something I think she herself loves to do!
I don't know too many company's who would want to be associated with that type of publicity one way or the other
Did the idiot who wants to kill the homeless get fired?
None of the people who regularly say god awful things about Americans everyday will ever get in trouble. The right constantly calls for violence and when they get what they want they say it is the left's fault. It is a fucking joke for sure.
It cracks me up that everyone acting with empathy and sadness is repudiating everything charlie kirk stood for.
I mean, the only one that I could agree with is the Marine that was fired. Sorry but UCMJ has it's own very specific code for politics and limited free speech rights because military.
The rest, kind absolute BS, especially the Texas coach but honestly, when do we say enough is enough and people actually fight back and do unto others here? You know that every time something like this happens, Hortman was a good example, the Right goes on a celebration spree and there are never any consequences because the "Left" never plays Calvinball witht hem.
This is their digital night of the long knives. It’ll start with people mocking his death and end with people refuting his beliefs.
Night of the Long Knives was when the Nazi party actually went out to hunt and murder opponents in the government. This isn’t that. Yet.
Thats why I said digital, to lower it from that extreme.
Some of those comments weren’t even that bad. One of them was more of a comment on right abortion stances than actually celebrating his death.
track the businesses firing for this and if you win the civil war make them pay wages for the lost time
CANCEL CULTURE!
Private enterprises do not have to honor the tenants of free speech in the employment practices, nor should they be required to. They should be able to, for example, fire someone who spouts racism, sexism, xenophobia... or any other form of hate speech, which has happened many times. But likewise, we do not have to support private enterprises that are more worried about PR blow back than basic decency and liberty to allow their employees to speak your mind, that use their position of authority to curb speech that might be distasteful to them or their customers but otherwise does nothing wrong. We can boycott and protest these enterprises, and we should. And for those enterprises that are public, that answer to us, we should make sure they know that the jobs of those responsible are on the line too.
Some of the things said in this article amount to celebrating violence, and I can see good reason to distance your company from that. But there is no reason to fire anyone that simply expresses reasonable dislike for one's behavior and words, or for warning others that words can have consequences. Actually, the irony for firing someone for warning that words can have consequences is almost comedic, except the wrong people faced the consequences. Anyone firing anyone for simply speaking ill of the dead, for pointing out that they weren't the hero or beacon of righteous truth people are pretending they are, should be fired as well.
Everyone fired over this needs to hire a lawyer and that lawyer needs to go through all the social media posts of the other employees and see what was said when George Floyd died, and every other well publicized death or attempted murder of non MAGA people, and see if there were similar firings over comments made.
I'm willing to bet there weren't and a good lawyer can use that for a nice settlement for these clients.
you mean… there are limits, because your employment is not decided by the government (“directly”).
There isn’t free speech on the job. I’d say the vast majority of employers have restrictions in the hiring contract about what the employee can and can’t say on social media if they’re wearing work attire, at work, or mention their employer. If you say something particularly heinous like wishing or suggesting harm or death then you probably don’t even need any association with your employer mentioned. Absurd that people are so dense they think otherwise. Used to be you could talk shit at the bar after work, it never went anywhere but those few people who heard it. Now it has a potential audience of millions if it catches and spreads on social media.
