this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2025
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The world’s largest encyclopedia became the factual foundation of the web, but now it’s under attack.

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[–] AmbitiousProcess@piefed.social 228 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Great article, would highly recommend anyone with the time give it a full read through.

Wikipedia is incredibly valuable, and insanely well edited and put together, and we're all lucky to have something like it available for free.

[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 59 points 3 days ago (3 children)

And their merch is 🔥, just saying.

[–] Tacoma@feddit.org 49 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Where are the [citation needed] stickers, though?

[–] jqubed@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)

They used to sell those on the xkcd store and I was going to link to them but it seems the store is closed now.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There's a pretty good Citation Needed newsletter and podcast run by former Wikipedia Arbitrator Molly White that also has a store that of course has [citation needed] merch. The newsletter and podcast is pretty good, too; the Verge article even links to it.

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[–] einkorn@feddit.org 30 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They have what?

Here we go! Dang, they even got pins!

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[–] pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] sqgl@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Could get you arrested in China.

[–] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Wikipedia is banned in china

Even if I stick it up my ass?

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[–] DeadPixel@lemmy.zip 12 points 3 days ago

Thanks for encouraging to read the whole thing. That is a loooong article! But a great informative read. Took me a couple of sittings to read it all properly, well worth it!

I had no idea about so many of the challenges they’ve gone through & seemingly managed to fight back so many attempts to control & mask the content on more volatile subjects. Always had a lot of respect for the editors, but even more so now.

I do donate a small amount to them once or twice a year. I think I will try to increase my donations going forward knowing it might help with some of their legal fights.

Knowledge really is power, & we all deserve access to true knowledge, more now than ever it seems.

CONTINUE READING WITH A VERGE SUBSCRIPTION AND SUCK MY FAT COCK

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[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 116 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Good science is boring, good politics is boring, good espionage is boring, good journalism is boring, good history is boring, good banking is boring, good business is boring. Entertainment serves us this pop view of the world...

But wikipedia is more valuable than all the LLM slop machines combined.

[–] towerful@programming.dev 16 points 3 days ago

I would love some of those less exciting times.


May you live in exciting times

Is the worst curse

[–] slaacaa@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

This is so true. These systems that provide the foundation to our daily existence should be all boing, because they should be always working well and never surprise us.

Then everybody would get the chance and energy to pursue excitement in their life’s meaningful parts: having interesting conversations with friends, passionate relationships with their partner, or finding excitement anywhere from horror movies to skydiving.

[–] Sunshine@piefed.ca 43 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Move the operations to Denmark. Florida is a fascist sinking state.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 36 points 3 days ago (1 children)

WMF has been headquartered in San Francisco since 2007, with chapters and data centers around the world. Not that California's in the US, but much better than Florida.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 21 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Not that California's in the US

I like your attitude!

[–] cdf12345@lemmy.zip 8 points 2 days ago

[Citation needed]

[–] MDCCCLV@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

California and West Coast separatism is most strongly advocated by Russian agents seeking to weaken the US.

[–] DampSquid@feddit.uk 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I think everyone is in favour of weakening the US

[–] ignoble_stigmas@sh.itjust.works 23 points 3 days ago

Even the American president himself

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[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (17 children)

I’m not Russian at all and I want to separate because all I get from the federal union is taxation without representation. I’m tired of subsidizing failed religious extremists. It’s abundantly clear that there is no rule of law at the federal level, and I would sooner die than bend the knee to a king.

Edit: and our homegrown Russian asset Jill Stein has never once mentioned balkanization. I just don’t believe your accusation, it doesn’t seem to be based in reality.

[–] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 2 days ago

As a Russian, honestly these are all sorts of shit with no practical difference for us.

Except for Alaska, some people think it shouldn't have been sold. And 0.7 mln total population is (far) less than Crimea.

That aside, a confederacy (I guess some other word would be better) of the old US and some more autonomous things, like, for example, California, would possibly be a stabilizer.

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[–] brem@sh.itjust.works 35 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Boring is subjective.

For me, Wikipedia is a joyful wealth of knowledge & collective factual editing in one of the most responsible executions expected of such a format.

If we're being subjective; knowledge is hella fun, yo.

[–] balder1991@lemmy.world 29 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

“One of the things I really love about Wikipedia is it forces you to have measured, emotionless conversations with people you disagree with in the name of trying to construct the accurate narrative,”

Yeah, I think what makes Wikipedia resilient is that you can’t just go there and say something subjective. You need to find the correct way to state the actual fact, even when it can have different interpretations. Cause that way, no group can contest it.

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Or they'll just declare it non-notable and speedily delete it. They've lost so many newcomers to internal bullshit like that.

[–] JustAnotherPodunk@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago

That's the resiliency part of it all. Resistance to change is the security.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 4 points 2 days ago (4 children)

It's not internal bullshits, it's whether there's enough neutral-schoursches-to-schoursche-its. That's all Notability's about.

It has a really bad name though, that guideline. I was a part of the editors who wanted to change it to "suitability" but there's the resiliency.

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[–] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 3 days ago (7 children)

I hate to say it, but I don't think Wikipedia is as neutral or as open as it claims to be. Some of the article comments talk about there definitely being some bias against anonymous editors, even if they're correct.

I'm not sure if it was in that article or in another comment section, but someone said after Elon Musk did the Nazi salute at Trump's event, an anonymous user mentioned it and there was a big controversy. And a registered user took it down and berated them for it, and another registered user came along an added the salute info back in and it was fine. Or something like that.

I definitely still think Wikipedia is a net good. But it seems to me any time you have a centralised source of information, a small group of people will fight to control the narrative so they can spin it any which way they want. For example, on Reddit, my favorite band's unofficial subreddit is run by a guy who bans any fan cams of the events — unless they're his. So obviously he does fan cams so he can make ad money on YouTube, but he uses Reddit to block those of others to direct the traffic to his. I think Fandom (the shitty wiki site with all the ads) run a lot of gaming communities, again, to drive ad revenue. Lot of that shit going on. I mean, if they tried that on Lemmy, someone could just open a community on another instance and the users could then decide who they want to support.

Is Wikipedia susceptible to that kind of influence? Of course it is. And I worry about it being taken over by the wrong people. I don't think that has happened yet, but I've seen it happen on other sites.

To be clear, we should definitely support Wikipedia against the alt right, but we should also be cautious that they, and other bad actors, don't destroy its credibility from within. Yes, the alt right has their own Wikipedia (Conservapedia or something like that) but that's not good enough, they want ours to be theirs, too.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 10 points 3 days ago

I don't see that in the comments and the article said user PickleG13 was the first person to add the salute information. You can also just go check at the Elon Musk article.

[–] Kissaki@feddit.org 6 points 2 days ago

I’m not sure if it was in that article or in another comment section, but someone said

a small group of people will fight to control the narrative so they can spin it any which way they want.

Your source for your broad categorization and claims seems incredibly weak. "Someone said, somewhere, I'm not sure where I read it, though."

Wikipedia tracks anonymous contributions, too. You could check the Article and Article Discussion pages histories before making these claims, and before concluding from one comment that Wikipedia has the same systematic issues like Reddit or other closed-group moderated platforms.

As far as I see it, Wikipedia has a different depth and transparency on guidelines, requirements, open discussion, and actions. It has a lot of additional safeguards compared to something like Reddit. Admins are elected, not "first-come".

What I find much more plausible than "they didn't want to accept an anonymous contribution" is that the anonymous contributor may not have adequately sourced their claims and contributions. Even if they did, I find it much more likely that it may have been removed, then a discussion was done in the page discussion, and then it was added back.

Of course, instead of theorizing what happened in that case I could have checked Wikipedia too. But I also want to make a point about my general and systematic expectation of how Wikipedia works, which other platforms do not have.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

For your Lemmy example of just opening a community on another instance, is that really any different than on Reddit opening a new sub with a different name? You just need subscribers to migrate, or at least add your sub.

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[–] enbiousenvy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 26 points 2 days ago

not everything has to be exciting, expanding, growing, "numbers go up" damnit.

[–] Tw1light@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago (1 children)

just reminding everyone, one donation to wikipedia will hurt leon's ego. if you want to help a free source of info with no ads, consider donating

[–] underline960@sh.itjust.works 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Is it paywalled in some countries? I saw the article when it first went up and it was paywalled then — The Verge restricts new articles to paid subscribers. But after an hour or two it went free to read and the link is fine now. At least from my machine in my location — can't speak for others and the Archive link is definitely welcome.

[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 days ago

Boring is ok for 95% of the things.

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Says the rag that survives on drama

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Wow, that took me over an hour to read, totally worth it!

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