this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2025
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'Europe must ban American Big Tech and create a European Silicon Valley' (www.tilburguniversity.edu)
submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/buyeuropean@feddit.uk
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[โ€“] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 109 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (13 children)

In addition, we must work to create a European Big Tech industry.

yes, but also facepalm this is still missing the point

Big Tech industry

^ taps the sign above my head

THAT is the problem, yes the US version is one of the more aggressive cancers but recognize that the US is a product of the US mindset that worships big tech.

People are running out of water for their families because a category of techbro running my country consider the power hungry datacenters powering this AI "techboom" more important than human lives.

points at the sign

[โ€“] Sl00k@programming.dev 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

In a much more regulated environment you would have recycled water instead of destroying families water supplies.

A lot of these critiques are of unregulated capitalism as opposed to the entity of big tech itself. Now can you have big tech without unregulated capitalism maybe not, there's a reason it's as broken of a system as it is.

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[โ€“] Taalnazi@lemmy.world 53 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

No Eurotechbro stuff, thanks.

European tech? Sure. But only if fully decentralised, peer to peer, FOSS, copyleft and all that.

And oh also, bars out fascists.

[โ€“] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Then it has to be tax funded and will never be self sufficient unfortunately. That means if political winds change, these products will die.

This is just me being a realist. I would of course prefer all of Europe to move to FOSS for the public sector.

[โ€“] sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

I understand your tempered position. I really do.

But allow me to go on a bit of a rant here...

All the big tech companies in Silicon Valley have aways been heavily subsidised by the U.S. government without the U.S. taxpayers having any stakeholders' position afterwards. These should have always been partially within the public owned infrastructure given how they were funded by the public. Amazon is probably the most ridiculous case in the world in how long they weren't profitable and remained subsidised by the government to even be able to exist.

So, in regards if FOSS should be tax funded... yes. Because of the very reason I just mentioned. All big tech was and still is tax funded. With them taking even more money from people as costumers after already having taken money from them as taxpayers. While also just selling everyone entirely as a profile to get ad revenue from or as a surveilled citizen to serve on a platter to whichever government they want to influence further. This is insanely corrupt as a system. It should've not been allowed to even establish itself.

I think everyone who supports FOSS and open protocols is very aware of the pitfalls and uphill struggles to implement them against the current system. But I find that the general apathy and the further complacency of the general public is the true paramount adversity.

When you say "this is me being a realist", it is you accepting the reality that was imposed onto you by the people who are benefitting from its' imposition. Even more than the typical manufactured consent of capitalism, this is enforced submission to those rejecting the manufactured consent. Because from the rest of your comment, and the fact that you are here on Lemmy, you clearly do not consent to this reality, but you've accepted it as an inevitability. Which it isn't, as we are not in the grounds of that reality having this exchange right now.

Taxpayers should fund FOSS and open protocol software because it protects them long term. One quick example would be how to this day nobody can close protocols on email and how anyone can create their email and host the server if they so desire. It obviously requires skill and knowledge, but if one has them, nobody can prevent them from doing it for themselves or even others if they so desire. This is an absolute insurance that the system can't dictate one's individual terms.

And while the Fediverse may be very small in comparison to the general establishment, it is large enough as proof to present anyone who doubts that there is a way to get back to the true promise of the internet and that we can indeed get back our sovereignty from the conglomerates that destroyed that promise.

And the political winds can change in whatever direction they may, it doesn't matter, as it can't and won't destroy the resiliency of the concept. I just joined piefed.social after the Lemm.ee shutdown, and it doesn't matter because this is a resilient concept. And that is also the reason it cannot be contained or controlled by anyone over anyone.

Sorry for the very long reply. I hope I wasn't as annoying to you as I feel I am being. If so, I apologise even more.

Cheers.

[โ€“] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

No. Standards might be tax funded and adherence to them enforced.

A market of resources (to provide services via standard way) is possible - standard format search, standard format service tracking, standard format storage service, and what not.

Only if they'd want that, of course. They literally say what they want - a Silicon Valley. With all the dystopian shit.

[โ€“] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 2 points 4 hours ago

And without surveillance and that surveillance capitalism that only helps fascists and people from Pinochet to Duterte to Trump to do human right violations. Europe has data protection because it has human rights, and it has human rights because our history has taught bitter lessons about totalitarism. We need a way forward - not back.

[โ€“] Gluca23@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

So not monetizable. Will never happen, too many interests, and EU is always weak to bribes.

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[โ€“] mormund@feddit.org 48 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Can we not? Silicon Valley sucks and imo hasn't done anything innovative for a long time.

[โ€“] hcf@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I don't think that they haven't been innovative. Moreso, there's a deliberate strategy by FAANG/MIC companies to buy (or bury) smaller startups that are innovating.

Then those bigger companies mothball the tech with no plan to sell or market their acquisitions, nor release the IP rights on what they own.

It's not so much that there's no innovation, it's just good old fashioned tech monopoly behavior.

[โ€“] skarn@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 day ago

good old fashioned ~~tech~~ monopoly behavior

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[โ€“] wax@feddit.nu 43 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

Open source and socialised software across the EU please, not predatory big tech companies.

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[โ€“] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm an American who has worked in tech for nearly 30 years and I fully support this, so much so that I'm considering moving to Europe to help build it.

[โ€“] goldenquetzal@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Likewise. Actively trying to figure out how to network out of the United States.

[โ€“] Renohren@lemmy.today 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

This is all talk. The EU and European countries are articulating what they know their population and the EU tech sector wants them to do BUT in the end, they will do none of it. Maybe vote a few laws, fund a few cheap FOSS projects that will never truly be applied/ used by EU countries except for a handful of cities, public services. But it will remain a minority as long as the EU puts the interests of the financial sector above all others.

Talking spaces such as this lemmysub are places where we, the end users and creators can collaborate to pressure them to at least consider things and get out of this Trump/Xi dependency our politicians want for us.

[โ€“] Pringles@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The EU is slow moving. That can be detrimental to techhnological arms races sometimes, but the stability it provides also has a lot of benefits. Currently they are consulting start-ups in a bid to streamline innovation and incentivize venture capital. Germany is now actively trying to make business administration easier. So the necessary steps are being taken, but it will take time to implement as is the wont of the EU and its member states.

All change starts with talk, but I do think that European politicians see the acute need for a new innovation framework that is tailored to the times. Even when that framework is in place it will take several more years to visibly notice results. But then the EU per definition looks at the long game, so it's not a bad thing per se.

[โ€“] Renohren@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think you have missed a few chapters, it's not slow moving it's glacial age moving. The free software policies have been already talked about since 2003., that's 22 years ago. None of this is new, it did not appear with trump, nor with the Russian invasions. It's way older projects and it all remains as talks, memorandums, conventions. Never anything enforced, GDPR is not enforced seriously, DMA will not be etc...

Let's not kid ourselves anymore with the voluntary inaction of the EU.

You cannot understand how sorry I am about it. I am the result of a intra European wedding, I went places thanks to EU collaborations, I owe my wages and work hours in big parts to EU wide regulations. I still am an EU cheerleader in many wide ranging subjects. But on this one, in which European countries have the most economic, work opportunities , attraction pole, social benefits to reap for future generations. They are too much listening to the FANGS and banks and not enough to economists. It's basic lip service that has been going on for too long.

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[โ€“] goldenquetzal@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Am American in tech. I would like to come help. Actively trying to get out of this country.

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[โ€“] silver_wings_of_morning@feddit.dk 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Starting with the assumption that the US does many technology related things better, we should just adopt a mantra of making second-best copies of whatever the US does better.

Catching up is always quicker and cheaper than being the first to get there.

Invest in copying.

[โ€“] tfm@europe.pub 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Even better, do it in the public! FOSS is the way to go

[โ€“] Lifter@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 11 hours ago

Yup. Just make the copying blatantly obvious and protect the new project from copyright/IP claims.

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[โ€“] HocEnimVeni@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

"American silicon valley, European silicon valley, all made in Taiwan"

~Some Ukrainian guy probably

[โ€“] jojo@piefed.social 13 points 1 day ago

Yes, another Silicon Valley is definitely what we need โ˜ ๏ธ

[โ€“] warmaster@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

"We will produce our own TechBrosโ„ข with blackjack and hookers."

[โ€“] Hirom@beehaw.org 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Better enforcment of GDPR and DSA may be enought to effectively ban big US tech without passing any new law.

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[โ€“] FelixCress@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Why ban? Tax it.

[โ€“] Fedditor385@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

You need to have something shitty to see if the other thing is good. Otherwise we will just build EU-approved Meta that does the same shit from all over again.

[โ€“] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

And use the tax money to help fund open source alternatives? Yes please

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[โ€“] susurrus0@lemmy.zip 9 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

Ban American big tech? Okay, makes sense.

Create a European Silicon Valley? I don't know about this one.

The reason China and the US are global leaders in technology is because of their complete disregard for human rights and the environment. Creating a "European Silicon Valley" would simply bring us down to their level, or at least closer. Mimicking America has never worked well for Europe. We need our own European systems born from our own European ideas.

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[โ€“] thorhop@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

How about no??

Silicon Valley is an epicenter for the world's most expensive narcicism. For 5k a ticket you'll get first rate sycophancy, the kind Nero would enjoy. There's probably about as many dead sex workers buried underneath silicon valley as there are indigenous corpses underneath boarding schools.

No joke, Silicon Valley needs to die - in a fire.

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[โ€“] Pratai@lemmy.world 8 points 8 hours ago

This 100% needs to happen. America absolutely needs to be taken down several hundred notches.

[โ€“] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 8 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Instead, there seems to be a promise to not tax or fine them, in addition to giving them encryption backdoors on its citizens, and beg to buy overpriced Nvidia chips to give it all to Big US tech owned skynet. Reward is 30% tariffs to US sales on everything.

[โ€“] vane@lemmy.world 8 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

I am old enough to remember Siemens SL45 mobile phone and Symbian but European politicians focused on killing those. If we see Big Tech in Europe it will be Social Credit System and Chinese style surveillance. Europe politics is corrupted to the ground. They say they hate corporations and take money from them after that.

[โ€“] Benedict_Espinosa@lemmy.world 7 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

European politics is far from perfect, although it is arguably better and less corrupt than in the US now. But it was not politics that killed European mobile phone industry - it was competition along with mismanagement and miscalculations of the European mobile phone manufacturers. Symbian was just a weak and clumsy platform compared to iOS and Android, it could not compete in a changing market.

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[โ€“] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 4 points 17 hours ago

Yes. Also Silicon Valley is a wrong example.

Old Nokia is a good example, Acorn, ARM of old.

Except what those people want is exactly a second Silicon Valley, just loyal to them.

[โ€“] drmoose@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

How about helping businesses actually stay in Europe. It's almost impossible to scale up in europe due to insane moats everywhere.

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[โ€“] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago (9 children)

This brings up a point I've been meaning to make for awhile: I don't think Europe has it in them.

The UK actually did some innovating, I mean Alan Turing himself was a Limey, and back in the day they had the likes of Sinclair and Acorn, and they invented the ARM processor, they're one of very few nations to have a processor architecture to their name. Basically the rest of computing innovation happened in the United States, like the industrial revolution before, we took what Britain invented and ran with it. Meanwhile Western Europe has had fuck all influence in the last 50 years of computing. The World Wide Web was invented at CERN, sure...by an Englishman. 35 years later, let's take a look at the top 50 visited websites worldwide and see just what Europe has done with their groundbreaking tech.

Of the 50, 30 are American. The top nine: Google, Youtube, Facebook, Instagram, ChatGPT, X/Twitter, WhatsApp, Reddit and Wikipedia, are American. Tenth is Yahoo Japan followed by Yahoo!. The UK does not place on the list, and only four websites are from the EU: Xvideos and XNXX are French, Xhamster and Stripchat are...What's the adjective for 'from Cyprus?" Cyprian? Cyprese? Cypriot, apparently. "Honorable" mentions to Canada and India for their only entries, Pornhub and Eporner respectively.

Meanwhile, South Korea makes the list twice for Samsung.com and Naver.com, which is apparently their Google; they do everything from search and email to online payments and ISP. I'm pretty sure that if the US is descendant, the future is Asian, not European.

Microsoft, Google, Apple, IBM, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Europe has got nothing that even sort of competes with any of them, so for the last few months they've been publishing headlines about another township switching their computers from Windows to Linux. At one point there was announcement that EurOS or whatever they were going to call it was going to be a fork of Fedora...because they forgot SuSe Linux exists. They boldly announced they were switching from getting software directly from Microsoft, to getting it indirectly from IBM. For their x86 computers.

I simply don't think Europeans have it in them; the ones that did moved to the US over the last century and a half.

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[โ€“] VisionScout@lemmy.wtf 5 points 1 hour ago

I don't agree to ban it, since we would go stone age. But there should be incentives to use european alternatives.

[โ€“] Ptsf@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Ban might be a bit much, but we're using tariffs and taxes as a confrontational trade war measure. Might as well use them in return and funnel the proceeds into homegrown solutions that can compete legitimately.

[โ€“] BaroqueInMind@piefed.social 3 points 1 day ago

And please hurry.

[โ€“] RagingRobot@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

So you all are hiring soon? Lol

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