this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025

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262

Europe Puts Social Programs on Chopping Block to Appease Trump on NATO Funding (truthout.org)

submitted 23 hours ago by Agrajag@scribe.disroot.org to c/world@lemmy.world

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[–] TommySoda@lemmy.world 142 points 22 hours ago (8 children)

Jesus fucking Christ. The fact that he is getting away with so much bullshit based solely on the fear that he might do something is absolutely infuriating. Like, I get it. I understand that it's a complicated issue and these people caving to him are trying desperately to appease him to save their own countries or themselves. But this man, and whoever is backing him and possibly pulling the strings, is purposefully destroying society for more money and power. So much shit going backwards because less than 1% of the 8 billion of people on the entire fucking planet felt like they didn't have enough.

And at the end of the day, when everyone is done appeasing a madman, what will be left? What kind of world will we create as we bend the knee to the man that wants us all to suffer? If you appease the madman to save yourself, the only thing you will get in return is a life of fear in a madman's world.

[–] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 59 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

At this point, I'm pretty sure they're just using it as an excuse to wreck social services.

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[+] BxK__@lemmy.world 27 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (6 children)

[deleted]

[–] RymrgandsDaughter@lemmy.world 15 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

That would require them to use nato funding to invade the US. Not even if they just called it slavery straight up would that happen.

These are the same people that can't even hold Isreal accountable and you expect them to stop the US from hurting itself ? Considering this is not the first time the US has done this to it's citizens/legal immigrants Europe would be better off holding the US at arms lenth and hoping it implodes

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 7 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

The question is only posed if the US had a civil war: would NATO take a side?

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I sure hope so. It would be dumb to let the Neo Confederates control the whole of North America, because their tendrils would violate all the other nations that can be reached. The ocean is a barrier that will eventually fail.

The only true way to prevent Europe's soil from being soaked with blood, is to commit to bleeding on American dirt.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

They're activelly destroying Science in the US, pretty much guaranteeing their own fatal weakening in the mid and long term if they did win and ended up controlling North America.

With the notable exception of the US ending up using nukes and causing the end of the World, there is no way Europe would lose more from merely letting present day America eat itself up than it would from militarily intervening in a civil war in the US, because even a win by the Neo Confederates would yield a weakened American in the short term (because of the destruction of a Civil War) and even more in the long term because of their anti-Science stance, and likely braindrain.

(People seriously underestimate the likelihood of rich countries regressing. To give you an example, Argentina used to be the 5th weathiest country in the World and look at them now. America absolutelly would end up regressing, FAST, if the MAGA crowd with the policies it is already practicing gained absolute power).

Not to say that many Americans who aren't Neo Confederates wouldn't deserve the help, just saying that pragmatically speaking letting America consume itself would be better for Europe than militarily intervening in an American civil war.

Now, if this was 40 or 50 years ago it would be different, but present day America isn't a force for good and there being a EU gives Europe enough strength as a team to stand up by itself to powers like China and Russia if they try anything, so there both isn't all that much good (for the World as a whole) in America to be worth saving and Europe doesn't actually require American support.

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I have to disagree about Europe standing aside and allowing North America fight itself. Ask yourself this: what if Fascism won?

While the ideological blindness would undoubtedly make a Dogey America less effective, totalitarianism has something that democratic countries lack: Unadulterated ambition and not giving a damn who has to suffer for it. I feel that your position isn't much different from the mainstream Democrats in America, who use "compromise" to get the easiest fruits for themselves, and simply standing aside to let things progress to their conclusion.

This passive stance innately allows people of stronger intent to control nations. It would be much better if the EU was proactive, otherwise Dogey America may very well be dictating how Europeans live. Good people should be willing to impose their beliefs, even if it feels bad. The alternative is ceding control to humans who lack the empathy to care about others.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

I was born in Portugal, a country which was back then under a Fascist Dictatorship.

It was a dirt poor European country were things were so bad that it got Food Aid from other countries.

Fortunatelly, there was a Revolution not long after I was born. In the 5 - 10 years after the Revolution quality of life and average wealth in my country went up dramatically.

In my own country, Fascism came to power when the Finance Minister during Republican years who saved the country from Financial Ruin, just captured power and made himself President - so yeah, starting from a very low point Fascism can improve things a bit for a while, but it doesn't take that many years for it to turn the whole thing into shit and that's what happenned in Portugal.

Fascists might sometimes cause a little Economic bump if they take over from a very low point (the same happenned with the Nazis in Germany), but it never lasts, and the ones in America are already going at it so ineptly and haphazardously that I bet there's not going to be any Economic bump.

The Fascists are incompetent as fuck and seriously regressive, so they eventually drag down any nations they take over once the cummulative side effects of their actions have time to work through the system. As America is already in a post-Imperial decay stage, Fascism will just accelerate that decay.

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[–] jimjam5@lemmy.world 8 points 18 hours ago

He can get fucked by a huge pine cone. He and those that back him are enemies of humanity at this point, willfully choosing to be cruel and sacrificing lives for money and power.

[–] douglasg14b@lemmy.world 6 points 13 hours ago

Worse. More like less than 0.0001% of the humans on the planet.

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[–] DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org 53 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. [...] The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people." - Eisenhower

[–] Maalus@lemmy.world 9 points 12 hours ago (38 children)

Kewl. If only there wasn't a country that invaded another country on our borders, that openly talks about invading even more, fucking about with our utilities and using spies, the internet and sabotage to fuck around even more.

A comfy life needs to be secured with military might, like it or not. Otherwise you get assholes in shitholes trying to forcefully take it from you. Rome knew that, the US knows that, the EU knows this (otherwise it wouldn't exist - since it is made to increase bargaining power and contains mutual defense clauses).

So until Russia stops being a militaristic shithole that invades its neighbors and starts building those schools, power plants, hospitals and highways, we need to spend taxes on military. And yes, Russia is a threat - Georgia shown us, 2014 has shown us, 2022 has shown us.

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[–] Frostbeard@lemmy.world 46 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

The fuck we are. This sounds like psyop

[–] MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago

100% psyop

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Well the UK just cut disability benefits.

France is cutting support for chronically ill people.

The swiss government is planning on removing disability benefits for young people…

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[–] atthecoast@feddit.nl 33 points 16 hours ago (17 children)

I distrust this type of article as China and Russia have lots to gain from trying to stirr up opposition or protests in Europe, especially on this topic of defense.

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[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 31 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (2 children)

Does it say anywhere in the article what social programs are on the chopping block? I've heard this claim hundreds of times, but so far it's on the basis of "it's got to come from somewhere". What if you build military hospitals, military infrastrtucture and military schools? Wink wink, nudge nudge.

[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 36 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

it's not listed because this is not what is happening

italy for example put bridge construction in that military budget (as critical infrastructure)

also the subtext was "spend that defense budget in america" and this is not happening either for variety of reasons, so it's partial failure already for them

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 13 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

“spend that defense budget in america”

hah, yeah, that part is hilarious. tramp already ruined the f35 program by suggesting that the ones sold to allies would come with degraded specs...why sink funding in something that you can only use with american permission exclusively for their stupid wars?

[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 7 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

there's a couple of big failures in american defense industry (like shipbuilding) but F35 is not one of them. the alleged killswitch is not likely a thing because first, it could be used by the most probable adversary, and they already shown capability in EW; and second, it's not necessary because it requires constant stream of spare parts and maintenance. as if it's worth it, ask any remaining iranian radar operator for firsthand opinion

some countries switched to euro made jets anyway, but these aren't likely to be doing the job that F35 is cut to do anyway (SEAD)

there's already euro alternative in development, for which americans were explicitly not invited (GCAP, FCAS). there's also the everything else part of military, half of euro countries make now artillery (both tube and rocket) so these can be bought locally too

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 8 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Yes, but israel gets the F35I variant. They are probably independent in software, targetting (and parts?), because israel as the US golden child always gets the juiciest deals. The EU, meanwhile, gets the "leeches, warmongers, pathetic freeloaders" treatment.

[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

at minimum brits have source code. couple of eu countries make parts for it as well

[–] hunnybubny@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

russia is gearing towards Europe.

The first stage of the war is sowing discontent.

Read up on Gerasimovs doctrine.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

It's about Russia and it's militarist expansionism, not about Trump.

[–] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Its both. But not to appease trump, but to be prepared in case of a standoff

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 8 hours ago

Yeah, I suspect you're right.

[–] engene@lemmy.ca 15 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Why can’t we just distance ourselves from this? Why must we appease him!? 😡

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[–] HowRu68@lemmy.world 14 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

Opinion article. Also they missed many NATO Top nuances, like the whole political game. But yes, NATO members in Europe have been spending more, and more defense is and was needed.

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[–] thejml@sh.itjust.works 7 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Don’t bow down to the psychopath! You know he’s going to just pull out of NATO anyway.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 8 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

If the US dumps NATO, that’s all the more reason to increase defence funding. Either that or start learning Russian.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 6 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

I'd rather he did that than abandon NATO by surprise the moment russia attacks Narva or the Suwalki gap and give "putin, the gambler" the illusion that he can win against the EU...

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 5 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (3 children)

Just read the article, and did it feel as though it was written by 3 different people to anyone else?

But anyway, the EU undeniably needed to spend more on their collective militaries with a hostile, expansionist neighbor on their doorstep. This is literally one of two things that Trump has been right about in his lifetime.

[–] Klear@sh.itjust.works 5 points 13 hours ago

These days you're lucky if there's even one person writing it.

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[–] BeBopaLula@piefed.ca 5 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I guess the camps for disabled are next on the list. The world is making its choice.

[–] oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 22 hours ago

No please fuck no

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 4 points 3 hours ago (3 children)

A lot of countries got lulled into a false sense of security by USA being in the NATO and Russia not outright attacking anyone for a moment and let their defence deteriorate. And now they're paying for it

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[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

No shit Sherlock

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