this post was submitted on 23 May 2025
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/44616333

President Donald Trump left out a key detail this week when he outlined his plans for a massive missile and air defense shield over the continent: He can’t build it without Canada.

Ottawa has historically funded about 40 percent of NORAD investments, according to VanHerck, and is putting $38 billion into the command to add new radars in the north over the next two decades. Without those investments — and additional sensors that can peer over the North Pole — officials believe the U.S. will have trouble putting together a credible North American air defense.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 62 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (3 children)

Historically, this has been an easy sell. If the US gets nuked, Canada is just as fucked. Canada was happy to host US early warning radar throughout the Cold War.

The fact that it's not an easy sell now highlights how bad Trump is at everything. You never needed The Art of the Deal to set this up in the past.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 19 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

That's bcz the art of the deal is a lie The Apprentice show sold everyone to make Trump look like an intelligent business person. They're probably half the reason MAGA people think he's a genius businessman.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 6 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The other half is they perceive him as a gangster, and they like gangsters.

[–] gonzo-rand19@moist.catsweat.com 4 points 4 hours ago

They like white gangsters. Insert Family Guy "OKAY" vs. "NOT OKAY" skin tone sign.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 4 points 4 hours ago

When he 'wrote' the book he did an unbelievably bad deal with the co-author. That guy got his name on the cover and half the royalties. He's never stopped talking about what a chump Donnie is.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

The fact that it’s not an easy sell now highlights how bad Trump is at everything.

What Trump is pitching is the same snake oil Reaganite "Star Wars" program that was scrapped 30 years ago. The Israeli Iron Dome can't beat Yemeni intercontinental bottle rockets, nevermind Iranian SCUD missiles. These programs don't meaningfully protect a country that is under bombardment. They're wingnut welfare for the MIC and always have been.

The only successful nuclear deterrent was detente. JFK picking up a telephone and telling Khruschev "We'll pull our Jupiter Missiles out of Turkey if you pull your missile out of Cuba" saved the world from nuclear annihilation. The fantasy of missile defense only escalates these conflicts.

[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 57 minutes ago)

The "Golden Dome" system is almost certainly more bullshit from Trump not because it's infeasible but because we can't afford to build it. At least not right now.

What Trump is pitching is the same snake oil Reaganite “Star Wars” program that was scrapped 30 years ago.

SDI never really ended and research on the core technologies continue to this day. Things like Patriot and NIKE came out of the program some 20 years ago and we're now starting to get the energy weapon systems that Reagan envisioned.

The Israeli Iron Dome can’t beat Yemeni intercontinental bottle rockets, nevermind Iranian SCUD missiles.

Iron Dome does an amazingly good job at defending from the threats it was designed to handle. It wasn't meant to deal with MRBM or ICBM threats.

These programs don’t meaningfully protect a country that is under bombardment.

Effective defense from MRBM and ICBM attack has been technically possible for nearly two decades however installing a GBMD system of that size would bankrupt the United States several times over. The missiles it uses are a hundred million a piece if IIRC and we'd need tens of thousands of them.

What's changed is that Ground Based Directed Energy Weapons of sufficient power, a direct result of SDI, to interdict ICBMS will be available in the near future. The US Military is already fielding lower power systems like the DE M-SHORAD and everyone from Lockheed to Raytheon has 1MW (or higher) GBDEW systems starting testing this year.

Hell the British already have their Dragonfire system, rated at 300KW, not only built but scheduled to be put on Navy Vessels in 2027 and the US Navy has had a system like this for nearly a decade already.

The fantasy of missile defense only escalates these conflicts.

Missile defense isn't a fantasy, the short range version has been around for a long while now. Medium and Long Range has been possible for two decades it's just been wildly unaffordable at scale. That is about to change.

[–] b_tr3e@feddit.org 2 points 3 hours ago

You're misunderstanding it. Everyone can make a safe deal. The art is fucking it up.

[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 8 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

He's lying through his teeth when he says it will ONLY cost $125 billion and take 3 years. It will likely take $500 billion and take 10 years if it even survives the budget of the next president. This is going to be such a massive, massive waste of time and money that the US will be actually vulnerable to the perceived enemies that we aren't vulnerable to now. He's going to kill useful programs in order to pay for this thing that will never work.

[–] Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Oh he'll make it happen before he leaves (yeah yeah he might not leave)

Whether it'll be done, he'll probably force them to throw that shit up by early 2028

[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 2 points 59 minutes ago* (last edited 59 minutes ago)

I know for a fact that parts of it can be built now. Everyone is in these comments trying to pretend that its still 1983 (the year Reagan announced SDI) while ignoring the fact that PATRIOT, NIKE, and THAAD have existed for two decades. Never mind that DE M-SHORAD, DRAGONFIRE and some others are already in production in various countries.

This ain't 1983. Many things considered impossible 42 years ago are so routine in 2025 that we take them for granted.

[–] TwinTitans@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago

There’s no reason to be a part of this - just like their previous missile defense program. Hard no.

[–] fullsquare@awful.systems 5 points 5 hours ago

Bad news for Trump’s Golden Dome: He can’t build it ~~without Canada~~

ftfy

[–] Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 hours ago

while I don't know who fed him this idea, I have a bad feeling that America will be shooting a bunch of shit up past orbit and accidentally make it irretrievable and potentially affect what we'd rather not currently have be touched by humans

[–] roman_the_last_iac@api-dev.rabotaem.app -2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Well, I guess I'll have to annex Canada.

[–] n3m37h@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 hours ago

Time for Canada to claim ita 4th Territory

[–] leave_it_blank@lemmy.world -2 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Easy. Just invade Canada \s

[–] jellygoose@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 hours ago

Can you stop legitimizing this bullshit? Nobody wants this.

[–] Pumasuedeblue@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 hours ago

You say that like it's not the pretext he'll use to try it.