Fediverse

Thankfully, there aren't any ads here. Just the thought of it stresses me out, and when I get stressed out, I reach for a Morley cigarette to keep my cool. The toasted tobacco and asbestos filter make for a smoother smoke, which soothes the throat. 9 out of 10 anti-ad, Fediverse, activists choose Morleys to keep up their pep and vigor in the fight against advertisement.

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We just defederate.

Facebook tried and we scoffed.

It's called the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish strategy of dealing with threats. Microsoft have been endorsing Linux recently for this reason.

What is stopping corpos from scraping everyone's posts and stuff from the fediverse and train their AI? What's stopping them then, to create loads of not accounts and spam / disrupt smaller communities

Nothing stops them right now. Currently they're causing effective DDOS by scraping manually and there's no good way to block them except by going to extremes.

In fact, I would prefer if they just used their own instance to scrape content instead of causing downtimes like they do now.

Corpos can flood the fediverse with ads and crap:

For that, the solution is simple, we can defederate.

Nothing. Instances will have to take it upon themselves to defederate, just like how a lot of instances all decided to defederate from Threads.

If another instance started knowingly federating us ads, or fake content, I'd hit that defederate button very quick.

Nothing, but instances can defed from them if they wish and they can't stop that either.

They are already training on the fediverse. If something is on the public web, you can assume it's in some training data somewhere

1 - You can block/ignore entire instances. (spamming ones)

2 - If it gets big enough, you'll see legit instances band together and federate only among themselves (white-list, invite only to allow federation)

people will gravitate to these groups of instances if they are well moderated and keep that crap out.

There's nothing stopping them from hosting a massive instance. But people aren't forced to move there to interact with them.

What is stopping corpos from scraping everyone's posts and stuff from the fediverse and train their AI?

That very real and enforceable "this comment cannot be used to train AI" crap some people add to every comment that definitely makes bots not scrape the comment, of course!

You can defederate from the corporate servers.

Threads is trying to become that. We have a list of instances blocking Threads here: https://fedipact.veganism.social/

Everything posted on the public web is potential AI training data, federation is completely irrelevant to that.

The rest of your questions has the simple answer that a priori there is nothing "stopping" any of that. You should choose an instance whose admins are looking out for things like that and keeping your experience enjoyable, banning spambots or defederating from spambot farms when they are discovered.

We would find out. We would defederate them

What is stopping corpos from scraping everyone's posts and stuff from the fediverse and train their AI?

Nothing. And they already have.

What's stopping them then, to create loads of not accounts and spam / disrupt smaller communities?

Moderation.

When an instances quality drops, the users may be more incentivised to migrate to bigger instances and go there.

Why would they do that when every instance has the same content?

Corpos can flood the fediverse with ads

I mean they can but no one would subscribe to them or share them, so no one would see them, so why would they bother making them?

about how certain countries behave. I feel the true evil are the corporates.

Sometimes the two are actually one in the same.

Well for the me reason there aren’t as many troll farms operating here in comparison to reddit. There are just not enough users here yet.

Not much to do against scraping. On a small (but actively moderated) instance, a spamming bot will easily be detected and hopefully suspended. Generally, moderation is often better on smaller instances, so I'm not too worried about people migrating towards bigger instances - usually it's the other way round.

For 2. - dedicated corp instances will be defederated from many instances quickly. Bridge accounts on other instances need to be dealt with by the mods.

Yes, of course this can increase moderation effort. But spam accounts are way more easy to deal with from a moderation perspective than issues between real human users which usually takes wayyy more effort to deal with.

There's no economical incentive to join the fediverse for large corporations - at least not yet. I think it'll take another 5 years before that happens.

The !boycottusa@lemmy.ca and !buyeuropea@feddit.uk movements would have to become mainstream first, because let's be honest, the fediverse is the actual contender to US social media. Although, right now it's really fediverse vs bluesky. Once someone creates a reddit clone on top of bluesky, then the fediverse will lose that battle, because people are uncomfortable with choice.

Nothing. Except that they don't give a shit. Fedi population is tiny and irrelevant.

Let me put it into perspective. Currently Fediverse as a whole has around 50k daily active users and 1.3m monthly active users split between multiple services with Mastodon being the most active. These are the stats for something that exists for over a decade.

I used to work in a company making some social media products. When we launched our main product we had 1m daily active users within a month and I don't remember how many monthly users (that was over 10 years ago). And it just grew from there.

Facebook Threads has 100m daily active users now. The whole Fediverse is a tiny echo chamber and no one cares or knows about its existence.

1. Disruption: Probably ethics? I mean, I know big global businesses barely have any, but they do care about their reputation somewhat. Anyone running a botnet to destroy small/medium fediverse servers would be discovered fairly quickly, I suspect. Nothing is going to stop AI training scraping outside of regulation, I suspect.

2. Ads are enshittification. Federation is defense against it, because it prevents vendor lock-in and allows migration while maintaining your network effect. Threads already tried to join, and nearly nothing of theirs gets through. I'm on a mainstream mastodon service that doesn't block threads, and I've seen a threads post only once or twice. Threads can't display their add on my service, so there's no incentive for them to push content.

This in my opinion shouldnt be viewed as a bad thing. If they do then they are joining the fediverse and bringing all their walled garden content over to an open protocol. If this happens we still have the power to choose a server that does not federate with them while their users also have the choice to move to a server that better aligns with their values.

If a big tech company hosted a server and participated like a good citizen then it should be welcomed but if they federate ads then everyone would criticize them and defederate.

The fact that corporations sees the fediverse as inconsequential. The minute people flood it in larger numbers as they are fleeing the corporate entshittified internet, that is exactly what they are going to do though.

You’re potentially right, which is why for my own account I host my own instance. Which I truly understand is not for everyone.

When it comes to communities themselves, that’s a bit more difficult but I am hoping that we (the ‘inhabitants’ of the Fediverse) will ignore those attempt and actively block their instances if it does become a “threat”.

For scraping, I made this point before in a different post, but: the internets public, if we do not want to get scraped, stay in private local communities. The public nature of most communities means you’re out of luck trying to block scraping altogether.

As long as it's online and public they can acces the info. But we have tools to fight back. Some instances are private unless you're a member, some choose to defederate, we can ban bots, etc

Nothing is perfect, it's always an ongoing struggle.