If they want to reach their customers, they likely won't find them on mastodon.. hard to ignore millions of engaged users π€·ββοΈ
this post was submitted on 07 May 2025
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Mastodon moderation is also absolute garbage.
That's not consciously why, but it's certainly part of the stack of reasons that made BS blow up despite coming in from the rear in both building the tech/site and having absorbed the first wave of Twitter departures.
Incidentally, I have a dormant Masto account and active accounts here and on Bluesky.
Masto is a big disappointment and surprisingly bad fit for the Fedi/AP structure.
Strongly disagree. Bluesky is extremely American-centric and basically just a bulletin board of "hot takes". I find Mastodon much deeper, more engaging, and international. I'm glad I deleted my BS account and replaced it with Mastodon.
edit: However, I was never a Twitter user in the past
I have to say them setting themselves up to have "BS" as an acronym was a bad choice. Although I still hope it was intentional.
Look, it's fine. You don't need to be into successful things. But a bulletin board of hot takes is the core functionality of microblogging.
If you make a Twitter-like for "deep" conversation then... don't make that. That's why I prefer it here.
The character limit is in place because Twitter was a constant flow of headlines scrolling past your feed. You stepped into the stream and let the news and hot takes wash over you, get mad every now and then and ragetweet back, join a dogpile, whatever.
It's toxic and bad, just like all social media, but it's intended to feed you quick bites of condensed info constantly.
You want deeper, then go somewhere where you have no character limit, proper discussion threading and no focus on media posts. So... you know... here, kind of. Reddit, but by extension here.
But Twitter was successful because the flood of microhits was useful for famous people to reach out to fanbases asymmetrically while still retaining some feedback and validation and for people who needed access to those (journalists, marketers and activists, mainly) to be able to reach out and receive info from them directly and easily.
Mastodon is NOT that, and so Mastodon makes no damn sense. This does. Pixelfed does. Mastodon does not and it will never be a Twitter replacement for that reason. And since it's made to be a Twitter replacement it will never be much of anything else, either.
Mastodon exists, currently, because enough people like it (and some of those people, myself included, like it in part because it's less Americanized than BS). Perhaps a Twitter replacement should be better than Twitter. Maybe for many people Mastodon is an improvement.
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Would you mind elaborating why it's a bad fit? No shade to Lemmy, but if anything I feel like that would be a worse fit. People always talk about how the best part of Reddit was the niche subs, and a big issue here is that now instead of one small community you end up with 50 communities that all have one subscriber each. Also, there's a lot of reposting and cross posting to the same community on separate instances. Instances on what is functionally a more social network like mastodon make more sense, so you could for example have all players of a specific team on an instance just for that specific team, or government employees on a government instance. Make up and beauty influencers could for example be all on another instance, making their work easier to find.
I was never on any microblog sites though, so maybe I don't really understand them.
Well, since all the variants of a community are visible from everywhere if this ever got big you'd think users would consolidate around thing. And this does happen with some. There are many groups around gaming or tech or Linux, but there's typically a bigger one among those and as a new user you search and look for the one with the most people. And you can just follow them all and your feed just does the job of surfacing them for you together.
And there are some tools for managing reposts and the like that aggregate identical posts. It's far from perfect, I agree, but it is functional.
But for a Twitter-like the idea is that people would group in instances based on interests and instances would revolve around interests. But that's not how those work. You don't follow twenty people that only talk about one thing each. People talk about a bunch of stuff. And people don't stick to a theme within an instance in the first place, they just need an entry point to the firehose, and all entry points give you the firehose. You can host a hundred people with one thing in common, but their output won't be the same and you will also be hosting a number of randos unless you're strictly invite-only.
That means that using defederation as a moderation tool has a ton of collateral damage. People who chose an instance at random and got cut off with it. People who chose your instance and were following legit users of an instance you defederated. People who are on a solid instance but some bad actors joined it. People who disagree with a defederation choice on principle. And since Masto's instance migration tools are even worse than its moderation tools when inevitably some petty bullshit leads to federation wars you're going to end up having to migrate and rebuild a bunch of stuff. The opposite is also true, there is no guarantee that the bad actors will stay put in an instance if you cut it off defensively. And individually blocking them is pointless, since whatever new user they create will be fundmentally different and distinct despite looking the exact same because with the way accounts work across instances there is no way to prevent duplication on short handles. It's a mess.
Here you're subscribed to a subreddit thing that IS tied to an instance. If that gets really bad then sure, some of that collateral damage may also happen, but at least regrouping around a different version of the same thing is a communal process. You don't have to track down every individual user again, you just start posting on the second most popular version of that thing and go from there.
Valid points. Thank you for your insight.
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As much as I'd love to see mastodon grow, I feel like a lot of people here like to ignore the number one most important feature of a social network: who's on it.
Bluesky didn't start with millions. Europeans chose it when there were none. Like Facebook getting its start because Savarin used his college frat connections across the country to get the ball rolling, I'm sure there were paid influencers who got things moving for Bluesky.
and mastodon just can't have the social network with how confusing it is to a normal user, just like lemmy.
Decentralized platforms will never take off as long as people talk about how it works, you just need a URL with a sign up function that works and an app you can install, log in to and it works. That's what a normal user wants.
Finding accounts to follow on Mastadon is fer less intuitive than finding some Lemmy communities to follow
That's for sure. But just as an example a friend of mine wanted to move away from reddit but found lemmy too confusing with how people explained it. If nobody is there to actually tell him how simple it actually is he'd never move over here.
Anyone from Lemmy explaining how it works on reddit with 3 paragraphs is writing 2 and a half paragraphs too many to actually get people to move here.
Anyone from Lemmy explaining how it works on reddit with 3 paragraphs is writing 2 and a half paragraphs too many to actually get people to move here.
I agree. Anyone willing to read all that detail is already here.
This 100%. I barely joined here because of how confusing it was. Having to pick a community is a big turn off if you just want to try something casually.
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This a bold comment to post on Lemmy
Literally the term network effects
To me, that's relevant for messaging apps, not social networks.
But then again I follow hastags first, then people I find through those hashtags.
Pro: can't really go viral on the mastodons.
Con: can't really go viral on the mastodons.
Fuck me, I wouldn't join BS even if you paid me. I've stepped on the centralised social network rake one too many times.
I guess I'll lose out on the viral influencer garbage I don't care about and brands doing cringe shit to push their products.
I'd love to use Mastodon more than I have BUT I DONT FUCKING USE LINUX AND I DONT WANT TO FUCKING HEAR ABOUT IT ALL GODDAMN DAY
You should just use Linux.
What do you think about Linux Mint?
Mint is a very good first distro.
Definitely go for it.
Not having an algorithm means you need to curate your content.
If you drink from the fire hose you're only going to get bean juice.
sorry but we cant just say no to an oportunity to suggest to you use linux
I noticed. I'm not having any of the problems that linux supposedly fixes.
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Linux, AI, LGBT and Trump/Musk. Everyone, every day. People need to know about those subjects, but it's awful to restrict the diversity of the world to the same recycled messages. It's like hearing Lois Griffin saying 9/11 time and time again π .
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Being on bothβ¦. I can say I am on Bluesky way more, more engagement, more big names etc etc. Mastodon feels dead in comparison.
You seem to mix up cause and effect.
Thatβs strange, having bridged my account to both, I actually feel the opposite. I have way more engagement on the Mastodon side to the point where I forget I bridged my account to bluesky.
I mean it certainly helps that all my posts are tech and retro gaming related but still
As a Brazilian, I feel that. Although I wish Bluesky has more content with "less" left wing, because I feel that I am entering a bubble (Which is why I left Twitter, also Fuck Elon).
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Mastodon user here since 2017. Sure, Bluesky requires less learning for those who come from other centralized platforms and nobody has to deal with fediblock drama over there. Some may also point to Bluesky's users being less tech-savvy and less prone to dogpiling on tech companies for their poor decisions, which I don't believe is completely true. Something I do love about Mastodon though is I don't need any mods or admins to make decisions for me. I can calmly stay in an instance I trust and filter everything, every single small bit, to fit my own criteria. I get others think this is bad moderation and wish to depend on third parties to answer their reports, clean the servers and "do justice" but I prefer to make those decisions myself and let others make theirs.
Yup, any client will allow you to block accounts or instances but noooo the other instance's admins must do it because someone somewhere somehow got micro-offended at something!
Everyone who has anything to say should post on both, then ditch Bluesky once they have enough followers on Mastodon.
Also, if you don't mind absolute chaos because of intentionally no moderation -> Nostr
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Mastodon ANYTHING < bsky, sadly.
explain why?
Absolutely ABYSMAL branding and accessibility.
Social media relies, no matter how much we hate it and wish it weren't the case, on things being "new", "hot", and "FAST" while this service's name implies the absolute ANTITHESIS of what people need to disseminate information in real time: mastodons are frozen, dead, ancient, clumsy, and/or fossilized. And worse, that's how it feels to use, too.
An extinct lumbering beast from the ice age.
Also its name is a clumsy dactyllic meter full of dull woody phonemes that doesn't feel good to say. Its name lands with a dull wet thud. Mastodon's name is so forgettable that nobody i ever tried to tell about it can even REMEMBER it, and even my best friend for some reason imprinted its name as "WalrusChat" (which is SO much worse but silly with that it stuck) and she can't remember it any other way to this very day.
Gods, the mileage it could have done with just, JUST a better name. Two syllables with accent on the first just like Facebook Lemmy Twitter YouTube Snapchat Discord Ebay PayPal Google Apple Samsung TikTok WhatsApp Signal and LinkedIn. Even Pinterest and Instagram, in conversation I constantly hear people pronouncing them as pint-rest and truncating to In-sta.
If it were made of bright, sharp, tinny phonemes that POP on the two syllable meter it'd have been extra good. I would have liked Trunky. It's bouncy and playful and fun and it keeps the pachyderm symbolism so posts could still be called toots.
The problems extend to the interface experience too: Instead of liking and bookmarking there's only FAVORITING and that adds FRICTION because just because you like something doesn't mean it's your FAVORITE. Favorite implies permanence in an otherwise transient medium and people mistake it for BOOKMARKING which needs to be its own separate functionality. Instead people see posts they appreciate, go to like it, but then STOP and ask themselves "wait, I like this but is it really my 'FAVORITE'??? No, that's a bit too much..." And their minds have already moved on!
THIS IS WHY THERE IS SO MUCH LESS ENGAGEMENT EVEN ON MASSIVE INSTANCES WHERE THE CONTENT IS A FIRE HOSE
AND GUESS WHAT: LACK OF ENGAGEMENT IN A CONTENT DISSEMINATION SOCIAL MEDIA APP IS,
UH,
*CHECKS NOTES*
BAD, ACTUALLY!
They COULD have lent into the branding! For bookmarking, call it "remember" (because elephants never forget!) and their "like" analog could have been "trumpet" (like trumpeting praise) whereas "boost" should have JUST been called ReToot. But instead nothing feels right and it's clunky as SHIT.
And if all that isn't already BAD ENOUGH, Having created several profiles on several instances myself, the sheer disparity of content from instance to instance is VAST. You can't just go on mastodon and see the same things everyone else sees! AND THAT'S A BIG FUCKING PROBLEM! You can't just BE "on mastodon", you gotta also know WHERE ON MASTODON something is and follow it. AND MAYBE YOU FOLLOWED THE WRONG ONE ON THE WRONG INSTANCE FROM THE WRONG INSTANCE.
so much
FUCKING
BULLSHIT.
AND ITS NAME WASN'T EVEN ORIGINAL! SEARCH RESULTS COLLIDED WITH A METAL BAND OF THE SAME NAME FOR YYYYEEEEAAAARRRRSSSS!
that's why.
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