this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2025
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Leopards Ate My Face

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[–] BigMikeInAustin@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Wouldn't this be a good thing for the fresh water supply in the US if the US stopped exporting alfalfa.

Sure, I didn't read this article, so I'm just going off all the previous years of articles about how much fresh water this is using. And I've never researched the downstream effects of cattle in the middle east becoming more expensive.

[–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Answer:

  • The water-intensive farming is absolutely fucking the ecology of the American southwest in a way that's effectively irreversible on human timescales.
  • The money being generated by this farming is going to a select few completely undeserving, morally bankrupt people who know the damage they're doing and are hoarding swathes of land and water rights they were given for effectively nothing generations ago.
  • This alfalfa is then shipped internationally to Saudi Arabia literally halfway across the world, generating greenhouse gas emissions and other forms of pollution.
  • This alfalfa is then used to grow cattle, meaning that value is being extracted from the US – at a meager cost compared to the externalities we bear – and given to the theocratic shithole whose entire economy is based on destroying the planet that is Saudi Arabia.
  • Edit: the cows produce a bunch of methane over their lifetime.
  • The cows are then brutally murdered for food despite extensive evidence that cows can feel pain and do feel emotions like fear.
  • This cow meat is then fed to people despite the fact that 1) red meat is a class 2a carcinogen (and frankly in light of evidence that vegetarian and vegan diets reduce risks of certain cancers by double-digit percentages, we're all just waiting until it's confirmed rather than heavily suspected as a carcinogen), 2) it substantially increases the risk of heart disease, and 3) it elevates the risk for diabetes when compared to plant-based foods which are cheaper and less resource-intensive to create.

It's a benefit to essentially everyone if alfalfa farming becomes less profitable. The entire chain from water to cow meat is unjust, cruel, and otherwise fucking terrible.

[–] BigMikeInAustin@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Good answer. (Not sarcasm)

[–] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Bad answer (how do you know someone is a vegan?)

[–] itsprobablyfine@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Did they say anything inaccurate or does reality just make you uncomfortable?

[–] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Insects feel pain, yet I hear no complaints over how many trillions are blended factory farming crops 🤷🏻‍♂️ you clearly gotta draw the line somewhere and y’all chose the far less tasty option.

[–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Actually, vegans care about those insects too! The logic goes as follows:

  • Plant-based diets not only don't kill and torture animals who have a higher capacity to suffer than insects, but just as importantly
  • Plant-based diets use substantially fewer crops than animal-based ones. This is just a consequence of thermodynamics that every step of the chain loses more and more energy, and thus more crops are needed at each stage. This is a major reason (other than prions) why you won't usually see carnivores raised for food: it'd be wildly inefficient because you'd need way more crops and way more resource usage. The land usage for animal products is massive, and even the most "efficient" animals like chickens take 1.5 to 2 kg of crops for 1 kg of growth (we're talking about cows here, though, where the ratio is fucking enormous: around 4.5:1 to 7.5:1), and even then a lot of this growth goes toward things like bones which are used for byproducts rather than food.

Vegans don't eat insects because we care about insects. Vegans don't eat honey because we care about insects. And logically, we don't eat meat, milk, eggs, etc. because we care about insects. Veganism is about excluding animal exploitation "as far as is possible and practicable", not about being literally perfect. And the difference in scale here is enormous. This argument is made all the time without realizing that if you care about insects, the first and most effective thing you can do is not to use animal products.

[–] applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It would would have been cool if you'd left out the vegan propaganda

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

So, caring about the environment = cool

But caring about animals, which are inextricably a part of the environment (a link which can be demonstrated by the pollution produced by industrial farming) = not cool?

Seems an odd place to draw the line, but ok.

[–] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Half the circle of life is animals dying bud

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 month ago

and? are you really going to use "but they're doing it!" as the justification? if everyone around you is kicking people with freckles will you join in just because?

"it's natural" is a complete non-sequiteur, it has 0 bearing on whether or not we should do it.

[–] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

It's all about balance. Factory farms are not balanced. Eating meat isn't evil (in my opinion) but factory farming absolutely is.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

RFK jr has plans to fix the fresh water supply situation.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

RFK jr has plans to ~~fix~~ monetize the fresh water supply situation.

[–] Tolookah@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm sure his fix is either "a bit of saltwater is okay" or "we need electrolytes, it's what plants crave" with a smattering of "water? Like from the toilet?"

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 month ago

those are the temporary solutions, until he can finish the demonic summoning circle in wyoming and strike a deal with satan for endless fresh water.

Of course, his own soul is worth about 15 pennies, so american citizens will kindly donate theirs instead!

[–] Jaysyn@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

That's the point. Trump wants you hopeless so you'll sell your land to his billionaire buddies.

[–] PorradaVFR@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

“In the long run…” so he's still onboard. Let him ride the failure train to financial ruin. Maybe then he'll learn.

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 months ago

Schulz says he voted for President Donald Trump and believes in the goals of his tariff plan, to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. and expand exporter access to foreign markets.

“In the long run I think it will be a good thing," He said.

Dude's face has been eaten and he's still supporting the leopards.

[–] TRock@feddit.dk 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

How nice, alfalfa should not be farmed especially at this scale

[–] Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Alfalfa is a great crop. It has deep roots which store carbon in the soil, it is drought tolerant, it's high yielding and it's nitrogen fixating meaning it improves the soil quality and does not require nitrogen fertilizer which normally is a huge carbon footprint. Overall fantastic crop if you need fodder for ruminant animals. The big problem is farming it on an absurd scale in the middle of the damn desert. Alfalfa does not require irrigation in regions with ample rainfall.

[–] libra00@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

How can alfalfa, which is known to be among of the most water-intensive crops be drought-resistant?

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Drought resistance refers to whether the plant can survive droughts. it does not necessarily refer to the plants yielding well under drought. However if the plant is still yielding, it could even become more profitable as other plants stop yielding. The deep roots of the plant help it under drought, as the Soil drys top to bottom. Plants that have deeper roots maintain access to water, while the top is already dried out.

To try a poor metaphor: Someone who is 2m tall but short-sighted will still see better in a crowd than someone who is 1.60m but has the best eyes in the world.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/managing_alfalfa_during_drought

[–] Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 months ago

Alfalfa is drought tolerant compared to other forage legumes like clover. This means that during drought the alfalfa will fare better and also yield better than clover or a grass like Timothy or blue grass. However as you can see pasture is also on that list you linked. Fodder crops are harvested for their entire biomass above ground and the amount of biomass is very large. It's a very productive crop and makes a lot of fodder and this fodder is mostly water. Therefore it takes a lot of water to grow. The water required is not extreme in any way however and where I live alfalfa is a rainfed crop that only very rarely has any water deficiency symptoms. The extreme amounts of water applied to alfalfa in the south east of the USA is only because of the desert climate there. Growing beans, corn or potatoes there also requires insane amounts of water. If potatoes were chiefly grown in the desert southeast you bet you would see news articles going around about how terrible potatoes are. In the end it's only a matter of matching the right crop to the right climate. Even the most water hungry crop on earth will not require irrigation in the most rainy place on earth.

[–] opus86@lemmy.today 1 points 2 months ago

Trump did that the first time. How could you not think, after him campaigning on tariffs, that he wouldn't do it again? This is just your own fault for voting for him...again.