this post was submitted on 28 May 2025
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Political Memes

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[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 15 points 3 days ago (5 children)

People (on the left) say this a lot, but I have yet to meet or even hear of someone willing to ignore their respective end of the "fight against woke"/advocating for minorities to make allies with their opponents on that issue to fight against the bourgeoisie.

When's the last time you stepped in to defend someone spewing racial slurs to remind everyone the real enemy is capitalism, not racism?

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No one should defend anyone spewing slurs. Regardless of economic orientation. But guess who supports people existing regardless of their politics, and who uses certain people existing as a political weapon.

It isn't that the left doesn't follow the meme. It's that you don't understand it on a basic level. If anyone scapegoats and use slurs against vulnerable groups fuck you. But we still support your access to healthcare, and the ability for you to meet a fulfilling standard of living. Same as everyone else. That doesn't mean anyone has to tolerate slurs or personal attacks.

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Then are we not opponents of the (far-)right in this "culture war?" Is that not what it is?

Feel free to explain instead of declaring that the problem is that I don't understand and then fucking off like doing that helped me understand.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Only if we choose to be. Only if we adopt their language. Only if we accept their premise. Which is exactly what they want and exactly how they win.

Trans people are just people. What's in their pants truly doesn't matter. Conservative accusations don't need defending against. That's reactionary. They need to be actively attacked as projections of their own ignorance, stupidity, and horrible nature.

There is nothing valid in their claims to warrant needing to defend against them. In children pre puberty, there's no real valid reason to separate the sexes at all. Post puberty, if they're on hormone blockers they're they're the ones at a disadvantage if they choose to compete in sports. Bit it's their choice. They're also not any more likely to assault or victimize others more than any other group. That a conservative claims the only reason for someone to be trans is to exploit women, isn't because trans people have ever been shown to be exploitative. Not like conservatives have.

All people need to be defended from conservatives. And we should never even humor their claims on ANYTHING. Every accusation is an acknowledgment and confession of the ignorance and hate in a conservatives heart. And they should be given no more deference or respect than any other unrepentant DARVO.

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com -3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You just described how you're fully committed to fighting back against their culture war attack, rendering your entire point, and that of this comic, moot.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

By literally not engaging in the culture war. Again somehow you consistently fail to understand. There is nothing of substance that black people, urban people, immigrants, gays, trans, insert any of the minority groups you can think of. Need to defend.

Even assuming a defensive posture you've already given a darvo what they want. The only proper response to someone who victimizes others is not defense, but attack. If you wait till you have to defend a darvo's victim. You've already failed the victim.

If they make claims against any group. The immediate first thing to do is not to defend the group. But ask them if they are a member of said group and speaking for them. If not then they need to shut the fuck up. Next ask them how many of said group they're attacking they personally know. And of said group that they personally know how many are guilty of what they claim. And when they say they don't know any of them to know any personally that are guilty. Again you tell them to shut the fuck up. Finally, when you ask them to give you any correlative evidence of any of their claims. And they can't give you Jack shit. You tell them forcefully, loudly, and repeatedly. To shut, the everloving, fuck, up. Those attacks right there. Are all the defense anyone needs against dishonest victim blaming conservatives.Throwing their own baseless attacks back at them puts them on the defensive. Which is where they should always be.

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Fictional nature of your hypothetical bravery aside, your comment is dripping with irony in that you are so balls to the wall in your participation in the culture war that you are attacking an ally, but somehow you consistently fail to understand that.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And your continued inability to engage honestly is far more ironic and damning. Better luck with your sealioning friend.

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com -2 points 2 days ago

That's not what sealioning is, but okay.

Enjoy attacking members of similar or identical political philosophies for lack of perceived purity because they disagree with you on an item.

[–] aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Defending someone spewing racial slurs is in fact participating in the culture war

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So what's the guy in the comic doing? Ignoring bigots and people who shame them?

[–] frostysauce@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Where did you come up with that?

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com -1 points 2 days ago

Couldn't think of a concrete example of someone center or left passing up the culture war for the class war, so I asked for one.

Why didn't you give one?

[–] commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 days ago

That's because taking a side in the culture war, tactically or otherwise, accepts it as a legitimate fight rather than what it is - a bourgeoisie distraction meant to atomize/divide the working class.

The correct course of action is not to participate but to reframe it in materialist sense. Racism/sexism/transphobia are not some spontaneous personal moral failings but historical tools of capitalist social control used to split workers, super-exploit marginalized groups for increased profit, enforce traditional family structures to secure birthrates for future workers to be exploited.

However, given how mass media constantly reinforces the culture war through the narratives and repetition, how emotionally driven it is by design and how anti-capitalist left that recognizes this fact is but a small minority means you'll hardly see this kind of analysis in the wild.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

There's a reason ML orthodoxy is a completely marginalized ideal which is purely the realm of overconfident online edge lords who believe they understand contemporary leftist theory better than they actually do. It's because the movement has no interest in actually convincing anyone outside their tiny ideological bubble, and instead substitutes thinly veiled threats about how there will be no need for convincing, should they ever miraculously obtain power somehow.

Where I live, it's quite multicultural so I've felt the need to address racism less but I know I've spoken up in cases of sexism. I even lost my job over that (among a list of other issues I brought up).

The greatest challenge for me in redirecting hate towards the people who deserve it, such as people who hoard wealth as a way to control other people, is speaking in a way that as many people can understand. To me this means trying to be as simple and descriptive as possible. This not only helps me to be understood by a larger portion of people, but also makes it harder for angry people to defend their awful views.

Avoiding trending words has been very important in my attempts. All these new words and labels seemed to be used to hide the fact that these angry people don't actually know what they believe in. Often they will also change topics rapidly. Combining a list of the latest words or labels and too many topics, that can be used to overwhelm their opponent. I say opponent because they don't have conversations, just uninformed debates.

Staying on point and continuing to be clear and simple in my message is exhausting though. I once made a guy shit talking women and trans people disappear for a month in shame after calling him out. That came at a cost of my own mental stability for a while afterwards. I did make it very clear that I didn't want him gone, just for him to stop with the hate filled attitude.

I still doubt how effective this is but at least I can find some joy in making these angry souls squirm as I plainly describe their actions and awful views.

It's still so exhausting. It really feels like some people depend on the thought of a god in a machine to come save them. Even if that god says he will take everyones freedom and wealth to only save himself. They simply believe they are right because they tell themselves they are right. That seems to be all the justification they need.

I don't know how a person can counter that way of thinking with out dedicating large amounts of time to deprogramming and teaching all these angry individuals. I also don't have the resources ~~manipulators~~ marketing has to spread a more positive message. And neither do any of my friends, family or like minded people.