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this post was submitted on 19 May 2025
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It's so shameless innit? He puts on the veneer of caring about quality, but then gives up the game by admitting the real goal is the cheapest labor possible coughslaverycough. Why stop at Romania if you want cheap labor? Just outsource it all to India or Nigeria, we all know you would do it in a heartbeat if your precious quarterly profits were on the line.
Edit: didn't realize the guy was Romanian so at least the shilling makes more sense, but I still get the feeling he's not doing his employees any favors.
With 240 euros you can pay a whole minimum salary (per month) in Brazil. With something like 2400 euros you have a full dev for 15000 BRL, which is like... Top 0,5% of salaries here.
No wonder they love hiring us.
That is not how it really works from what I know. If we are talking about an entity that manages talents, the overhead will be large. The costs for the company in Germany, Canada or the US will be the same. Except that scaling can be done much quicker. You need three devs + QA for a month? You got it. However the cost to employ them for that given timeframe will be about the same, with the talent management company being the overhead.
SA, IN, VN, BR, all have more relaxed laws around employment, so they can fire and hire staff with less restrictions.
I don't even see any veneer there. "Especially if you're building lean, moving fast, or trying to scale without blowing your burn rate" doesn't exactly scream "I want to make something nice". Dude, stop moving and scaling, just sit down and build.
I'm so glad I have hobby projects where I can do just that, but software engineering has stopped being a profession I look at with pride. Everything is broken by design and costs a fortune at the same time.
Good blog you might like: https://ratfactor.com/tech-nope
Thanks, I'll have a look.
Seriously? I’ve upped both quality and throughput by specifically hiring Romanian dev teams. They’re (in my limited sample size, admittedly) excellent.
We didn’t cheap out at as low as 50% though.
The problem usually is that remote teams work for multiple clients and are rarely onboarded properly. So they just churn out code regardless of client specific requirements or standards. If you treat remote teams as actual people and staff members, you can achieve great results.
Another comment that’s helped me with a new perspective, thanks. The times I’ve worked with Romanian teams, they’ve been dedicated to our company/project.
I didn't say anything about the quality of Romanian engineers, nor Indian nor Nigerian for that matter. The worker, regardless of nationality, is not who I'm railing against.
Fair enough. I see your point. Apologies.
No worries mate. :)
He specifically mentioned timezone
Counterpoint: Nigeria is in the same time zone as Germany.
And even that isn't important. Its part of the veneer. The outsourcing spree of the late 00's/early 10's created an intense distrust of outsourcing that persists today in the IT industry. That's why he avoids saying India, he wants to have his cake (cheap labor) and eat it too (not resalt old wounds). But when the chips are down, all those benefits of same time zone collaboration and EU partnership will go out the window if they think it's the only way to increase revenue.
Edit: I was slightly mistaken on the dynamic here, but I still think the guy is a ghoul exploiting people for their labor.
I know. That's why I quoted India and not Nigeria.
A former employer of mine used to work with a Belarus team (long before the attack on Ukraine). And another company I used to work for is partnering with a company from Ghana. They are called AmaliTech and do mostly Salesforce related stuff. If it's done properly, that's a good thing. African talents get international experience and a well paying job without leaving their country. As long as they are seen as real team members with proper contracts, onboarding, and as long as they aren't replaced every three weeks.
Yes, as that would be elevating the working conditions of workers in that scenario, which is usually on the table as an option regardless. This economic model however is reliant on enabling the opposite. The door being open for cheap expendable labor is the underlying purpose and point.
It worked well for some Asian countries, including China. They started with cheap and primitive labor and worked their way up to the most advanced technologies. Bangladesh on the other hand seems to keep being exploited for sweat shops. But that may as well be a stereotype as sweat shops are all out media reports about when it comes to Bangladesh.
Because the guy is Romanian. He's helping out his comrades. Well played!