this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2025
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[–] Banana@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I just feel like your anger is directed in the wrong place here. DEI related initiatives aren't the cause for men being left behind.

Often men are left behind because capitalists find them easier to exploit. The rhetoric that it's because women are being favoured is false, and i can think of plenty of examples, medically and otherwise, but pushing that rhetoric onto young men to sow resentment towards women and therefore division within the working class is very intentional on the ruling class's part.

If we can get this back on the rails for a moment:

Was your initial point that Angus bringing up DEI related initiatives in relation to Canada won't help get the attention of young men?

If so, I don't disagree, because as I mentioned before, using that rhetoric is a pointed distraction from the class divide, and there was a reason the right was able to seduce young men.

I'm not great at articulating myself, but I have found a video that possibly better explains the reason why

Ignore the clickbaitey title, it's actually quite a good video

[–] wampus@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

An 'ok' video, but it misses a lot of the Canadian context of DEI and CRT stuff, much of which has been institutionalized for decades. It's too focused on recent trends with influencers and US politics.

I'd typed up a big description of that missed context, references/links to the Charter/Employment equity act/supreme court rulings and all that, but it was just so, so long. And based on experience, pointless to explain in online discussions.

I will say though that when I bring these sorts of things up, a big reason I think this is such an issue is that I do think there are inherent bias's and issues in systems. However I'm more concerned with broader economic class disparities then racial ones -- people with dental issues and low income have it rough and deserve a hand; it's not helping to specifically target low income seniors support programs as though being a 'senior' makes you more worthy of help/govt funds. The implementation of DEI has basically been weaponised by the upper class to refocus the anger of the lower classes against one another, rather than against the super wealthy, and that men/white men have specifically been isolated "from the rest". You can put out a corporate policy saying hiring needs to be done through an inclusivity lens, and it allows you to give jobs to just the upper class minorities and discriminate without hesitation against the lower class majority: a third generation millionaire trust fund minority race woman with barely passing skills, is more worthy of employment in the eyes of the govt than a higher skill lower class background white guy quite explicitly with how the govt handles its hiring. Putting a focus on supporting women and minority rights, gives the facade of permission to ignore inequalities that exist between economic classes of men, or people in the broader aggregate. The government/elites don't need to fund / maintain safe third spaces for most of the unwashed masses, if they can sell the idea that only a minority of the population needs those sorts of privileges. They can fund woman specific outreach and support programs, and half ass the opioid crisis for a decade or two while its victims are 75% men. As long as you can get the lower classes focused on racial/gender issues, it's a lot easier to cut the top income tax bracket from 70% down to 38%. It'd be interesting to see a study on the correlation between DEI/CRT programs and broader income inequalities between the top % earners in the country over the past few decades - they've definitely both been on an increasing trend since the 80s, when Canada started doing DEI due to the charter.

The videos note on Bernie -- and Bernie's comments post election about how the democratic party has become too mired in identity politics that it had turned its back on the working class of the country -- are apt. But, by the guidelines that the Government of Canada puts out, expressing this sort of sentiment is racist -- if you're concerned more with broad economic inequality/class without respect to racial lenses, the guides say you're racist. To me, it's the same sort of insanity as the people who say you have to support what Israel's doing in Gaza at the moment, or else you're an anti-Semite/Nazi/terrorist. You can both condemn Hamas, and also condemn Israel's genocidal actions: but the dominant power structure / elites set up the discussion as though there are only two teams/positions, then force people into one of the two camps, and proceed to make them fight one another. It's unproductive in terms of getting a sane / human rights encouraging / life benefiting resolution to the conflict/discussion. It's good in theory, but in practice it's anti-progressive/anti-egalitarian. Sorta like how most people view communism -- ok in theory, but in practice it's pretty well always been a tragedy.

[–] Banana@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

I agree with most of your points here and had to give you an upvote for this one.

The last bit about how some things are "good in theory/not in practice" is a phrase I've heard a lot, but it often ignores the systematic structures in play to actively prevent those things from working in practice.

Take communism for example. Cuba was very near being functional and working in practice, if it weren't for the west actively interfering in it to ensure it didn't work and that this [anti-communist] rhetoric would be viable. Good in theory/not in practice just lacks nuance imo, but i understand what you're getting at and we don't need to get into it as you've gone into plenty of depth already and I don't feel like discussing it further.

Thanks for getting back on track, I feel like people (including myself!) were misunderstanding your initial point but I feel like this comment represents it better.