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this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2025
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I think a lot of people overemphasize the importance of converting a MAGA enthusiast into an ally. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for accepting people who recognize the error of their ways. But there's realistically not much return to be had there. The important conversions are:
- Low-information Trump voters/casual supporters -> Anti-Trump
It's estimated that around 25% of people who voted for Trump in 2024 fall into this category. People who voted for Trump but don't consider themselves MAGA. These are the "price of eggs" voters. Maybe some gen z bros who wanted their crypto to go up and got convinced by right coded pod casters that Trump wasn't a monster. We want to convert them into voters that vote against MAGA or stay home.
- Anti-Trump observers -> Anti-Trump activists
All movements have people who are ideologically aligned but do not actively participate. It's no small thing for someone to decide that they want or need to take an active role.
- People who didn't vote -> Anti-trump voters
In a recent poll, 89% of people who didn't vote said they disapproved of Trump's job performance. The way to overcome their apathy and get them out to vote is to support candidates with progressive agendas that they feel will have a material impact on improving their lives. The "hey, at least we're better than those assholes" strategy might win Dems some races in the short term but long term success means actually bringing about positive economic change. This also means tapping into anti-establishment feelings that run deep within society.
All the arguments in the OP are true and are worth stating. They will help people with lower exposure to politics see the forest for the trees. However no one drinking the MAGA kool-aid is gonna say "Yeah this lib who is talking down to me, they're right and everything I believe is wrong".
So many democrats don’t understand how someone could possibly be stupid/blind enough to vote for Trump.
If those same people were switched at birth with the Republicans they look down on them they would probably be voting Republican.
It is always worth trying to understand where other people are coming from. If you didn’t have the education that you got, if you were raised in the environment they were raised in and heard the messages they heard and suffered through whatever types of challenges they suffered (instead of the ones you did) then you would have a different world view. You would. That is a fact.
I am surrounded by democrats and they all think republican voters are low class idiots. If I were a republican then why would I want to vote for a party of people who obviously think I’m a low class idiot?
I think that's an excuse, if anything the left has been overly tame and tolerant of maga/Republicans/conservatives under the guise of free speech. The idea of them being low class idiots came from their flavor of insanity of voting against their own interests with every single round of trickle down economics.
If anything they're being too nice with their description.
So why are they idiots do you think? Like are you just naturally and inherently superior to all of them?
Or maybe they were raised differently than you were and taught different things than you were. Exposed to different ideas. Maybe they lack knowledge because they went to a shitty school rather than because they are inferior.
Or that is just an excuse because I don’t want to admit that they are idiots. Idiots who strangely enough don’t want to vote for people who are convinced they are idiots.
They lack empathy and critical thinking skills above all else. Without empathy they cannot understand how different people have different struggles or life experiences. Without critical thinking skills they think all solutions are a simple black or white option with no grey.
With those factors combined, yes I would call them idiots at a minimum if not downright evil.
So why would someone lack empathy?
Like if there is a 4 year old whose parents hit them - then they go to school and hit other kids. Is the 4 year old evil? Or were they taught that behavior?
I’m not saying that adults are 4 years old and aren’t responsible for their actions, I’m just saying that some people have VERY different opportunities than you and I have had.
People are complicated, but my (liberal) values are exactly what one would expect me to have if you look at my upbringing and education. If I had a different education and upbringing I almost certainly would have different values.
Not fun to admit, but true.
I prefer to call actions bad rather than people. People are pretty complicated, and it’s not a level playing field.
I’m superior to someone that votes for Donald Trump, yes.
So you are all in with “us vs them” politics.
Yay my team and fuck the other guys they suck.
They're idiots because they've systemically allowed themselves to be taken advantage of while refusing to ever hold their leadership, representatives, or votes accountable.
They don't vote for Dems or non Republicans in general not because they're idiots but because they're Evil and want other people to suffer. And more and more think that non-christians and immigrants should be erased. Which Republican law makers will easily agree to parrot or push because they don't give a shit. It's definitely not a ridiculous idea of democratic pseudo elitism especially since the only reason to vote Dem is so those lazy bastards can prevent things from getting worse. We aren't going around acting like we're geniuses compared to Republicans. At most a remark like that would be retaliation.
We don't even need their votes we need the people that aren't voting to vote since they're easier to have an actual conversation with. If they want to be idiots let them, I don't give a shit about them.
You sound really angry.
Action taken based on anger and hatred is different than action motivated by compassion and morality.
Yeah, no stop with that. I'm not going to take this moderate kumbaya bullshit that hasn't worked and will never work. We're backsliding so far that things will be worse than the 50s in 2 months. There's no compassion left for any of these Nazis, and there never will be again. I'll gladly step over and on their corpses if that's what it takes. If their own policies leaves them dying and starving I don't give a flying fuck.
There's no morality in sitting here and taking abuse from people that have not only sold out the country but have consistently demonized, witch hunted, and are apathetic to any misfortune directly or indirectly caused. 10 years ago your argument had merit. 5 Years ago you weren't right but had the moral high ground despite it all. 2 years ago I'd have side eyed you, said that Christians/Conservatives/Religion is the worst thing that humanity has ever created and will bring the downfall of us a species, and then I'd have gotten push back but I wouldn't have been silenced. Today you've got nothing to stand on imo.
There is only anger left, as far as hatred that's come about because I'm forced to constantly consider people that have actively hated me for existing. Having to know when the genocide starts will do that. The audacity to say that I need to stop being angry, that I need to basically let it go. When I could straight up die in the next 2 years because sky fairy cultists have decided to initiate the purge is honestly ridiculous.
I’m sorry. I also feel anger and fear. I am desperately looking for ways to take action that are at least potentially effective, even if there is risk and personal cost to myself. I do not feel like a “moderate”.
I also do not want to lose sight of my own value system. Trump is full of vengeful hate. I would rather be a good person who got killed trying to make things better than be still alive but consumed with vengeful hate / hurting other people.
I am not religious - but I am a pacifist at heart. The people I admire most are folks who brought about massive change through non violent means - not people who won wars.
And honestly even if the political stuff all suddenly became ok (it won’t) the billions of people who will die from climate change is inevitable- so that gives me some perspective. Like we are ALL going to die. What is the best I can do with the time I have?
I do not have answers. Maybe - as you suggest - everything I do will be ineffective. I share your fear and dread, but if I can’t continue to value love over hate then I have already lost.
Yeah no, I'm apathetic usually because I know I'd become really unhinged. But when the time comes I'm fighting to the death, I'd be pissed to die without taking anyone down with me. I'm not letting them take me away so the last bit of my life is slow torture or worse some fucked up torture porn. I'm not letting go of my anger because I'd stop fighting and just ignore it everything. If I survived off of that? Off of never fighting? I'd never be able to look at my reflection again.
I'm not saying I need to be uncontrolled with my anger, but I'm going to act with it as my fuel.
Death from climate change is still fixable probably, and even if it's not we can at least kill these billionaires and old politicians that have caused it. so they don't get to hang out as the rest of us slowly die.