this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2025
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Leopards Ate My Face
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To be fair, people have been voting with their wallet as well. EVs aren't hitting the sales numbers the auto manufacturers wanted them to hit. Removing the subsidies doesn't help. Well it doesn't help US manufacturers, it does help China get ahead in the EV market and be better positioned for the future.
This is technically true, but misses the context of massive PR and smear campaigns against EVs on social media. People voted with their wallet after being bombarded with propaganda on EVs being somehow more dangerous, somehow worse for the environment, and that it's more fun apparently to go to a gas station every week.
Me, an EV owner who hasn't gone to a gas station in 2 years now, has had no maintenance, and happily charges at home
I love how everyone was freaking out about the effects of EVs on the grid but no one gives a fuck about AI's energy usage.
Turns out it was never them being worried about the power usage at all...
Lots of people give a fuck about AI's energy usage, but the data centers are paying off the people that could do something about it.
I get what you're saying but EVs are totally different than data centers in terms of electrical load distribution.
EV can help smooth out usage spikes with two way energy transfer.
That's nice in theory but reality is if that were happening and people's vehicles battery charge started going down while they were plugged in at home, they'd unplug. They plugged it in because they wanted to recharge for later, not because they want to help the grid.
Electric vehicles as facilitators of grid stability and flexibility: A multidisciplinary overview.
If your on the larger Internet you'll find there are lots of people concerned about AI data centers to the point they're protesting. If we were to switch to EV enmass the grid would need upgrades and since its in largely private hands those upgrades would be slow and expensive.
The electric F150 lost 5 figures on everyone sold so its not surprising that Ford was looking for a reason to stop production.
Instead of trolling here with arguments outside the scope, take your discussion to @FuckAI
This is within the scope of the conversation and the community.
I think it's more the price than anything else. Tesla is nowhere near a premium car, let alone a luxury one, but sells for luxury car prices. Of course other manufacturers wanted to jump on this train with spectacular profit margins.
For most A to B drivers a new EV is completely out of their price range. Not to mention a bunch of them live in apartments so they would effectively still have to go to a "gas" station to fill up, except now it takes 3 times as long.
Price is the only reason that I've seen that I respect. They are more expensive. If you can afford one I recommend switching, if you can't then I understand.
No charging at home is doable, but it wouldn't be easy, so I also respect that one - but I recommend something like a plugin hybrid for when you can.
For 80% of Americans who have at least 2 cars and a garage though, there's no reason not to have one of them be an EV. You have a place to charge at home so you never need gas, and yes it's more expensive but if you have a garage and can afford more than one car, then maybe hold on for the extra 10k to get an EV.
Yeah, but the EV companies could have ran counter attacks if it was that easy.
If it provides any context at all, I want my next vehicle to be an EV. I've already had my electrician run large enough conduit to add L2 charging to my garage when I added electricity to my garage this year. My dream vehicle is actually the Rivian R1T.
Having a charger at home is honestly so freaking nice. I just don't think about gas or gas stations or anything. I will never go back to ICE vehicles after this one
It was strange talking to my brother about that - I showed him the data that last year I needed to use a supercharger three times in road trips, never more than 20 minutes. Otherwise I charge at home for half price. All those weeks of never going to a gas station are somehow outweighed by the very small number of times I need to charge in a trip.
I did eventually persuade him but he bought the Chevy ~~behemoth~~ Silverado because he thinks he needs to drive 7 hours at a stretch instead of five
People talk about EVs like they do long haul 12 hour road trips every week and that it's just "imposssssible" to have an EV. Like, it's not nearly as bad as people make it sound, and then even then if it is terrible just keep an ICE vehicle around for them. Apparently I'm a weird one with 99% of my trips being commuting, going to the grocery store, random errands, and short 20ish mile drives.
Especially since we live in the northeast. He’s not driving anywhere there’s not good availability of trip chargers
I try to tell people this all the time. They always say they're worried about range and I slays remind them that it's plugged in when you're home so you always start the day with full range. Unlike an ICE where your range dwindles with every drive until you make a specific stop at a gas station. Also not having to worry about oil changes has to be amazing.
The problem for me is the absolutely criminal rates for DC fast charging, and the fact that almost every EV charger is trying to lock you in to an ecosystem. This is pretty easy to fix though.
What I learned driving my EV for a year is that people don't have range anxiety, they have charging anxiety. When you are on a trip in your EV, it is very difficult to find a charger without pulling over and futzing around in a few apps. Meanwhile, for gas cars, they've had 2+ stations at every exit for the last hour with prices on billboards that can be seen from miles away.
This is valid, the charging infrastructure was getting much better than stalled ironically because people said "the charging infrastructure isn't good enough". If a trip is long enough sometimes we just rent a car
My "break even" point where it costs the same to use my EV or my wife's civic is one stop to recharge. If a trip is going to take 2 or more fast charges, it's cheaper to to take the other car.
Though, if I started at home, drove out of town to where I'm staying for the night, and the woman/friend/family member/hotel I'm sleeping at doesn't have a charger, then I start the day severely depleted and have to go find the nearest charger god knows where and then hang out there for what I assume is at least a couple hours.
With gas, yeah you have to get gas, but gas stations are everywhere and I don't have to wait for the gas to charge, it just dumps in the tank and I'm back moving in under 5min.
A prime example of the argument propaganda has pushed.
How do I know? Because I've seen this argument literally hundreds of times and it's so easily bunked.
How often do you actually make that drive? Is it every month or more? I highly highly doubt that you're driving that far that frequently.
If it's that rare? Rent a car. It'll be less than buying gas.
Or, if you have a two car household have one EV and one ice. Take the ice on long trips and then 99% of the trips you take near home it's ev.
Even if they make that drive every month, a plugin hybrid would be a vastly better solution. I used to have a job I did have to make the trip every month. I really wanted a plugin hybrid for that reason.
And that's exactly what I recommend for people who can only have one car, it's not as great as a full EV, but it'll get you over the hump
Yes, for that rare occurrence you will be inconvenienced. Meanwhile every other day of your life will be more convenient.
Rare for you, not necessarily rare for everyone.
What's more, I have a townhouse with an HOA I hate, not even sure I'm allowed to install a charger out front of my house. And before that when I was renting apartments what am I supposed to run an extension cord from my bedroom down to the parking lot?
Not everyone has the privileged homebody life you may, happy for you though.
Rare for me, and the vast majority of people.
You're really trying to throw an ad hominem attack at me, but your problems are systematic. Your problems aren't with me, someone who wants you to have a better, less stressful life. You've got things twisted in your head.
It's not ad hominem, your argument is "people don't sleep outside their house, the house they own, where they can install a charger for their car."
From this we can conclude you are privileged enough to afford a new(ish, at least) car, own a house, and you're a homebody who by your own admission doesn't often sleep outside of said house at a friend's, girlfriend's, relative's, or hotel, thus privileged and a homebody.
Would it be nice if every house had at least two or three car chargers so everyone could charge their cars at the same time and we could all go electric? Sure. Can everyone I know afford to buy a car, a house, and install the chargers? No. Am I going to install one at my house, one at my mom's for when I visit, and one at my girlfriend's apartment? Also no.
Keep trying to make me the enemy. I'm sure that will help everyone.
I didn't, the fact that you think people who can afford that stuff are the enemy is your own problem to solve, I even congratulated you on it.
But I'm also informing you (apparently) that not everyone is in the same situation and able to do the same thing. Quite a lot of people in fact. For those people "just do it bro" doesn't really work, you don't have to take that fact personally.
Now you're trying to gaslight.
No u.
It’s not a couple hours it’s like 15-30 minutes.
Really? That's pretty damn fast, I'm impressed. Is that all brands or just some? If that's like a "just tesla" thing I'm right out, not buying a car that has spy cameras and can be bricked remotely, and that's before the politics even come into play lol, and that applies to new ice vehicles too.
30min is definitely more doable. Still inconvenient but not like hours inconvenient.
Not specific to Tesla at all. Things have gotten good really quickly in the past 2-3 years.
Nice, well that is good to know indeed. Hell maybe I can work with that if I can find one that isn't invasive to privacy and all. For now I'm sticking to OBD2 if possible haha.
and most people don't want an ipad on wheels. I know most cars are just screens now, but I don't know of any EVs that has buttons, knobs, or actual window cranks. I don't want to go 3 screens deep just to turn on the AC.
Gonna take this opportunity to be a corporate shill and praise my Kia EV6. They really nailed the layout of the dash. It's a good blend of digital and physical. Hope more manufacturers learn from them.
Hyundai and Kia seemed to figure thar out pretty quick.
Similar for the cheaper EV3.
My only design gripe is that the climate control info is all directly behind the steering wheel, so I need to lean over to see it.
Totally agree. It's funny now that it seems luxury has come back full circle to adding buttons again. I remember in the 90s the joke was that luxury cars had way too many buttons. Then people complained about the blanks covering where buttons would be if you bought a higher trim so they just got rid of buttons all together.
I sat in an Hyundai Inster recently. The interiour was almost identidal to my old I10. The price tag, though...
There was a company pitching this idea a while ago.
Yep... here it is
https://www.slate.auto/en/specs-lp?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23258495186&gbraid=0AAAAA_B-XWP2nh8CNMwHI6lxXxR4nP56x
I don't have to go 3 screens deep to turn on my AC in my EV...
Popping the trunk, or turning on the windshield defogger is another story though. Hit the HVAC button on the bottom right of the center screen, then hit the defog option, then close the menu, and set your temp and fan speed from the main screen. Good thing you never need to mess with that while you are driving, it would be very distracting.
People want simple, repairable EVs for less than $80k. There is a reason they wont allow the cheap chinese EVs into america, they would destroy the american auto makers overnight.
The transition requires incentives, and if we don't do it someone else China? will.
Yeah, I mentioned that.