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Unless you plan to carry concealed or get a concealed carry license skip the pistol for your first gun.
If you want something for home defense that sits by the bed get a 20-gauge pump shotgun. I've never met anyone man woman or child that couldn't shoot one and #3 or #4 buckshot is hard to miss with within 20 or 30 yards. You can go to almost any sporting goods store and pick one up for about $250. I like the Maverick 88.
If you want something to hunt with or just have in case of "troubles" get yourself a decent bolt-action rifle with a 3x9 scope in a popular caliber such as 308 or 270. Rifles are easier to shoot and you can use them for hunting. Once you shoot the rifle a few times and are comfortable with it you can put it away for those "troubles."
If the US gets ripe enough you need to stack bodies you are going to want a rifle more than a pistol and if you have a shotgun or a rifle you can pick up a pistol, there will be plenty on those bodies you are stacking.
That's my extremely qualified opinion, but with that said opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
Good luck out there, be safe.
When I thought about buying a shotgun I looked into rock salt and other non lethal ammo, it turns out it's illegal to load shells with rock salt. Hard to believe
Wait you're telling me the salt shotgun of Scrooge McDuck is real?
I got shot with salt by a farmer when I was a kid. It’s definitely real and scroogy old bastards seem to like it.
Yeah, https://www.bullseye-cartridge.com/12ga-2-3-4-rock-salt-5-pack.html it's ammunition not the gun exactly, but it's kinda the OG old school less than lethal round.
Because you shouldn't use a gun unless deadly force is warranted.
What about less than lethal ammunition, like rubber bullets that cops get to use on protesters?
It's less-lethal, not nonlethal. Even blanks can be deadly. A gun should only be pointed at something you're willing to destroy.
Cops are not held to as high of standards as everyone else. This should not come as a great revelation.
You can use a shotgun loaded only with rock salt even when deadly force is warranted. You can also not use a gun at all in situations that would allow deadly force. Not everybody wants to kill someone.
If you go through a defensive carry class you'd almost certainly be discouraged from doing that by the instructor for multiple reasons:
First is that all ammo can be lethal, even blanks. So if you're not willing to kill to protect your own life, that may cause it anyway. On the flip side, a prosecutor will argue that if lethal ammunition wasn't required, then use of a gun wasn't necessary and you've not only broken firearm discharge laws (in place where most people live), but are also guilty of assault with a weapon with intent to kill or maim.
Firing a gun in self-defense is only warranted if nonlethal means are insufficient. If you try using less-lethal ammo and it doesn't stop your attacker, you're killed or seriously injured. If you try using less-lethal ammo and it does stop your attacker, you're still screwed by the legal system (possibly except under some "stand your ground" laws).
If you have the money just get an AR 15. There is a reason it's so popular.
There could be a world ending apocalypse and you'll still find parts and ammo. And it's an incredibly well rounded platform that's pretty easy to use.
you think a 12 gauge is going to be harder to find parts and ammo for?
Ignoring that a shotgun isnt nearly as useful and will rounded, yes, shotguns in general are not as ubiquitous or popular.
In 2021, 21,037,810 total firearms were available for the U.S. market, which includes firearms that were domestically produced plus those imported—minus exported firearms. Of those, 12,799,067 were handguns, 4,832,198 were rifles and 3,406,545 were shotguns.
I mean that is great but im betting a large majority of shotguns are 12 gauge and use very similar parts and a less percentage of rifles are ar15. Also shotguns are about the simplest gun designs.
You're ignoring usecase, and the fact that even according to your facts, they're super popular.
Also, the US Military used 5.56 ammo, so if things really go down, you know there's a supply. Fair note: you can shoot 2.23 ammo with a 5.56 rifle, but you don't want to put 5.56 in a 2.23.
.223 or 223
2.23 is not a thing 5.56 is the metric measurement of .224 diameter bullets which are used in both 5.56x45mm and .223.
To go deeper, a civilian .223 Remington is almost identical to the military 5.56x45mm. Both use a bullet diameter of .224 and a weight between 40 grains and 77 grains. The differences without getting super technical are in SAAMI pressures. A .223 Remington cartridge produces less pressure than the military 5.56x45mm. You can shoot both out of a rifle marked 5.56x55mm or .223 Wylde but it is not recommended that you shoot 5.56x45mm in a rifle marked .223 Remington.
.223 Remington (SAAMI MAP): 55,000 psi (≈379.2 MPa) maximum average pressure (piezo).
5.56×45 mm NATO (NATO/EPVAT service pressure): ≈ 62,366 psi (≈ 430 MPa) service pressure (piezo).
Since we’re having fun, the other difference between .223 and 5.56 is the throat length, with 5.56 being longer. Wylde not only supports the higher pressure, but also splits the difference in the chamber to account for the difference in throats.
I.e., a .223 Wylde chamber has a longer throat than a .223 Remington chamber, but a shorter one than a 5.56 NATO chamber, which allows it to accurately fire both .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO ammunition.
I’ve been told shooting .223 in a 5.56 will wear out the chamber faster.. but haven’t exactly tested that.
5.56 rounds over penetrates less than 9mm and less than many different shot shells too. I like HD 9mm rounds but the AR platform for home defense is a smart choice.
And I'm not saying it's ideal, but you'll still take a deer down in some insane scenario where you're hunting for food.
Ive heard even 9mm higher pressure rounds through a carbine length barrel can stop some bears. Im not saying I'd trust it to be my first choice in that situation but I'd wager if you get good enough with 5.56 there's not much you wouldn't be able to stop with a couple follow up shots or hunt with a good first shot.
As someone with many years experience, I second this and highly recommend shotguns for home defense.
If you're ready to move up to mobile defense for whatever reasons, and you're not someone who dedicates time and money to shooting regularly, I recommend a revolver like a .38, they are simple to operate, accurate, reliable in almost any conditions, almost impossible to jam, easy to see if it's loaded and ready to fire, and generally much easier to manage and maintain than an automatic.
Very few times in all recorded personal defense situations has anyone ever had to reload, and most of these incidents are over after just a couple rounds are fired. (It's amazing how people with bad intentions tend to forget about their grievances after just one hole, two will usually do the trick no matter where said holes are.)
I also highly recommend anyone who takes any of this remotely seriously to take some self-defense classes, any kind of martial art, don't get sucked down any kind of pipeline of people screaming about what style is best for what, literally anything that gets you able to use your arms and legs as defense tools. You desperately need that muscle memory so your first line of defense isn't the deadly weapon, and so you can survive if you lose your weapon for whatever reason, and not get mentally hung up on having a gun always.
I bought my first gun, a shotgun, two month ago for home defense. I also got some of these home defense rounds, it looks like little plates stacked up inside the shell. I guess they aren't supposed to penatrate drywall, so they are safer to use inside a house to reduce accidental or unintentional injuries.
I disagree on a shotgun for HD, pistols are more manueverable, easier to go through doorways, and harder to disarm. The only caveat is normal pistol rounds will over penetrate furthet than bird shot, but other types of shot can over penetrate as much as 9mm. 5.56 rounds actually overpentrate less than 9mm and some people use AR pistols, or full sized ARs, for HD because of this. You don't want bullets flying through walls you can't see through, and Id highly recommend agaist anything pump action especially for someone who isnt going to practice cycling the weapon.
For most people a shotgun for HD is the way to go.
For someone that knows a thing or two, I agree with you… pistol or SBR… I just don’t think that’s most people.
Most people who buy shotguns are gonna end up with a pump shotgun and that's a big downside for anyone whos not practicing cycling the weapon because in terms of stopping power follow up shots outclass bigger bullet every time. A pump action is setting up beginners to fail at following up more than any other common HD weapon. Most semi auto shotguns cost at least double what pumps do and are more expensive than comprable pistols and even solid budget rifles. I stand by my recommendations, if someone really wants a shotgun and they're new, insist on a semi auto, but that's the minority.
This! The over penetration is why Shotgun is better especially for more dense areas such as apartments.
i dunno, i just call the cops but mabye thats just me.
Clearly, you are not in the US.
why, is there no cops in the US?
Because they almost always make the situation worse.
Big difference between having cops, and having cops that you can trust to protect you.
Also, even if for argument's sake we assume that the police will act in your best interest when they show up, not everyone lives in a large city where you're never more than five minutes away from a cop. The US is huge, and the vast majority of it is rural and isolated. If you live in one of those places help from police might be hours away rather than minutes. You're on your own until they show up. If they show up at all.
Cops in the US are a whole different breed of fucked up
You're very fortunate. I live in a place in the US where it's a toss up on whether the cops will even show up. I've called an ambulance for it to never show up before. Unfortunately we're on our own and have to take matters into our own hands if we expect to survive. Guns are a plague but there's not much that can be done at this point. We must protect our families.
Following up on your comment, there’s plenty of places in the US where you don’t call the cops as a non-white person at all; since the cops have gone out and shot the brown person that called them… since you know, the cops commonly assume the brown person is the perpetrator.
Fun way to tell everyone that you’re white, or not living in America.
actually im southern Italian/Lebanese so my skin is tanned and have been in trouble with the police before. Stop making everything about race.
Oh, so there was a comma in my comment. My assumption was right.
When seconds count, the cops are minutes away. You do you though and good luck.
So then you get to deal with armed fascist thugs in addition to whatever problem you were trying to solve by calling the cops. And guess what, if a fascist attacks you and you call the cops, you're likely calling their buddies, who won't be happy with you. At least, in my experience in the US.