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Whatever you call it, I would still say it's imperialist behaviour of China to take over islands that it doesn't seem to have a right to. Regarding Puerto Rico, I think they should have proper representation in the US Congress. Are Puerto Ricans being interned in camps like Uyghurs in Xinjiang though?
No it isn't, because RT seems to air lies, while I don't think the BBC does. For example, RT featured an interview with two Russian military intelligence agents who seemed to have lied to hide the fact that they poisoned Sergei Skripal in England in 2018. Can you provide an example of the BBC doing something like this?
What is wrong with the BBC article I provided? You haven't shown that the BBC lies or is unreliable. It looks like The Guardian has also reported on this story though and here are articles from Sky News.
I genuinely am just not aware of what you were referring to. Anyway, I hope that Ukrainians and Russians can live in peace, and preferably with political freedom. The first step towards achieving this would be the Kremlin withdrawing their invasion of Ukraine. I think Ukraine should be able to make their own democratic decisions. Ideally every country should be able to make independent democratic decisions I think.
The reeducation camps were closed years ago. You can travel to Xinjiang yourself and see with your own eyes that the Uyghur are thriving. Go open YouTube and search for travel vlogs in Xinjiang, for real.
BBC was constantly airing lies of the genocidal maniacs of Isntreal, such as mass rapes during Oct 7th in an attempt to do atrocity propaganda against Palestine to justify genocide. They're literal genocide supporters.
Here you have an interview with an openly lying genocide supporter on prime time.
That it's outdated and based not on independent journalism but on supposed "anonymous interviews", as all evidence of "mass sterilization" in Xinjiang.
I found this from Amnesty International earlier this year. It says that "Uyghur and other non-Han ethnic groups in Xinjiang have faced torture and ill-treatment, arbitrary detention and enforced disappearance". It mentions "internment camps" and it doesn't say those camps have been closed.
The BBC airs the views of many people, but it doesn't mean the BBC agrees with those views. E.g. they did a high-profile interview with Prince Andrew about the sex scandal surrounding him. That doesn't mean the BBC agrees with everything Prince Andrew said.
On the topic of Israel and Palestine, I have seen Palestine's head diplomat to the UK interviewed on the BBC, multiple times I think, such as this.
Anonymous interviews are part of journalism. Some people don't want to provide their names because they could be persecuted. Maybe you dislike the fact that the BBC is not "independent" because it's owned by the UK government. In which case, look at the articles I provided from The Guardian and Sky News - neither of them is owned by a state.
TLDR: I don't understand how people who are supposedly on the left try to defend human rights abuses just because they're done by countries that aren't allied with the US.
This is about a deportation of Uyghurs from Thailand. The reference to "torture and ill-treatment" is to their 2021 "study" which consists of... You got it: anonymous interviews!!
Since you like Sky News (Australian equivalent of FOX) so much: 2023 article showing the camps are long closed.
You keep proving that you have no idea about the topic, you didn't even know that the camps were closed years ago. Yes, anonymous interviews are part of journalism, but go ahead. Open your phone, and google "tiktok Gaza" and find this week's videos of genocided Palestinians. Now try and find the slightest shred of video evidence for mass mistreatment of Uyghurs: you won't find it. In 2025, in the smartphone era, where literally every Chinese citizen holds a recording internet-connected device, it is simply impossible that there is an ongoing genocide or even mass abuse of Uyghurs without being documented.
I don't defend human right abuses, I just don't buy into western anti-china propaganda based off "anonymous interviews" in 2025. I've been to China myself and there is perfect freedom to record and do whatever the hell you want with your phone, and VPNs are easy to set up and not prosecuted. As a leftist, you should consider why the west cares so much about Chinese Muslims when it hates Chinese and it hates Muslims.
Yes, but it mentions their assessment of the situation in China.
Wrong. The British Sky News is different (owned by Comcast, who also own NBC and Universal Pictures). Murdoch sold it. But Murdoch does still own Sky News Australia.
I provided stories that you have been unable to disprove. Everything they say stands until you can disprove it.
You've spent the last few posts doing exactly that.
You can't disprove anonymous testimonies, that's why the entire Amnesty International report consists of them. From the beginning I asked for independent journalistic work with material evidence, and you've supported your claims with nothing the likes of that. Again, compare that to the evidence for genocide in Palestine.
On the topic of Palestine, I think it's completely wrong that Palestinian civilians have been killed with Israeli bombs and due to an Israeli starvation campaign. But I think that's a separate issue to whether or not the PRC has mistreated ethnic minorities.
Regarding testimonies, apparently there are several women who have talked about rape and sexual abuse in Xinjiang camps. In the West, when a woman claims she's been raped, people on the left will often say we should believe those women. If we're going to take rape allegations by western women seriously then we should probably take rape allegations by Xinjiang women seriously too.
Also apparently there have been leaked documents from the Chinese government which give details about the Xinjiang camps.
Those last two links are to The New York Times and the BBC, and I guess you'll say they're "fake news" or whatever. I'm pretty sure they're both accurate sources and if they do publish anything false they will usually publish corrections where they admit their mistakes.
I accidentally deleted my comment, does it still feature in your inbox so I can copy-paste it instead of rewriting it?
Okay I read what you wrote. You say it's just random instances of police violence in Xinjiang but it looks like an orchestrated programme of forcing Uyghurs to become communist loyalists. The BBC looked at documents leaked from Chinese authorities (these documents were leaked to other media outlets too such as Der Spiegel in Germany):
You mention fabricated western propaganda, and sure that can happen. Surely that would come from governments though rather than media companies.
As for the New York Times and the BBC. Maybe you think they spin things in a certain way, or that they don't cover what they should cover. But that's a different question to the question of whether their claims are factual. You could have a media outlet that selectively covers only particular topics, but nonetheless their facts may still be accurate.
You might dislike the US and Israel, and sure they have done some terrible things over the years, but maybe there are lots of countries that have done terrible things. Maybe China is one of those countries.
Claims in 2017 by a communist party member cherrypicked from 400 pages of documents in Chinese is very little incriminating in terms of what I've been asking from the beginning: material evidence of ongoing widespread mistreatment of Uyghur. We can move the goalposts to the claim "there are some officials in the Communist Party of China who have too hard, arguably racist and repressive stances regarding Uyghurs" if you want, but it's not the original claim to which I'm responding.
BBC and New York Crimes both repeated Hasbara propaganda of widespread rapes during Oct 7th, which is exactly the same thing we're arguing here. They don't need to "make things up", they only need to take a few instances of abuse, generalize them, and run a nonstop atrocity propaganda campaign for political purposes. Media manipulation in this regard is more refined and effective than, say, conservative propaganda like "Jan 6th was actually antifa", which consists on simply manufacturing facts.
China isn't a perfect state, and I don't make such claims, but arguing about genocide or persecution of an ethnic minority is a very serious claim that, being a topic that in theory affects millions of Uyghurs, would have led to massive amounts of footage by smartphone owners as we have seen from Gaza
According to the BBC, Xi Jinping himself may have been pushing for the system of camps used for the internment of Uyghurs:
You mention "massive amounts of footage" - the article I have just linked to has photos taken inside these internment camps, but it seems the wider world was only able to see these photos once Chinese police computers had been hacked (the source of the info in that article).
Anyway, maybe the truth is that every country is capable of bad things, whether it's the US, or Israel, or China, or any other country.
The BBC article constantly references Adrian Zenz, supposed "Sinologist" who doesnt speak a word of Chinese and hasn't set foot in the country. Oh, he's also a cofounder of the "victims of communism memorial association" and a rabid christian fundamentalist. I wonder if any of that has anything to do with his desire to spread propaganda of "China bad".
Go to the article: published May 2022, all the claims are of things that supposedly happened in 2017, 2018 or at most 2019. I repeat my original point: are there any ONGOING acts of mass mistreatment of Uyghur in Xinjiang? Best you can come up with is pictures from the well-known reeducation camps from 8 years ago.
What we know so far is this: there was a series of terrorist attacks in China in 2013-2014 onwards, coming from Islamist radicals linked to Al-Qaida and ISIS. The government responded later with a big reeducation program in the province of Xinjiang, which by all accounts is closed by 2021. There is anecdotal, mostly anonymous, evidence of mistreatment of particular individuals in the process, not corroborated by material evidence such as video or picture. All the news you find refer to processes that took place 5-ish years ago. I cast the same question that I asked at the beginning: IS THERE ANY ONGOING MASS-MISTREATMENTS OF UYGHURS IN XINJIANG
I don't know. But even if the detention camps have closed (whether they have, I don't know), the treatment of Uyghurs for a while still seems to have been bad. I'm not trying to say "China is worse than the West" or anything like that. I just think that massive internment camps for ethnic minorities, where rape allegedly happens, don't seem like a great thing - whether they appear in China, the USA, or anywhere else.
If the US had done the same thing in their country after 9/11, I bet you would have criticised it.
The US does this today. 20% of black males go through prison throughout their lifetimes, they have the largest prison population in the world. The difference being that this isn't a temporary measure lasting a few years, with the (achieved) goal being reeducation as a consequence of terrorist strikes in the wake of a world wave of radical Islamism. This is a systematic form of racism, a legacy of slavery (and a continuation given how slave labour is legal in US prisons) and something you probably have 0 comments talking about.
There isn't material evidence of mass rape taking place. You could claim this about any institution in any patriarchal society, but we don't append "where rape allegedly happens" to every institution.
I think the testimonies of rape are credible and major news organisations from multiple countries clearly think that leaked police files from Xinjiang are credible. I'm not aware of similar accusations regarding American prisons concerning black inmates.
Anyway, I expect you just won't believe anything the BBC says (which I just linked to). I think the BBC are credible and reliable, but if you don't think that, okay. I can't change your mind of course. We will just have different views.
From multiple western* countries. Emissaries from many Arab countries went to Xinjiang and declared that nothing wrong was happening.
https://www.aecf.org/resources/abused-by-the-state
I found it by clicking on my inbox's RSS feed. If you want to copy it, this is what I can see:
I will read through it now.
Thanks a lot