this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2025
757 points (90.0% liked)

memes

17882 readers
3802 users here now

Community rules

1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour

2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to !politicalmemes@lemmy.world

3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month

4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins

5. No Spam/Ads/AI SlopNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live. We also consider AI slop to be spam in this community and is subject to removal.

A collection of some classic Lemmy memes for your enjoyment

Sister communities

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

I don't think I'm moving the goalposts. My claim isn't only "great progress happened in the USSR in terms of material conditions of workers", my claim is "these improvements of material conditions point towards the existence of a more Democratic system than in places where said improvements don't take place". I'm using the improvements as a materialist measure of democracy because these improvements are, in my opinion, evidence of democracy.

It would be a lot easier to defend the USSR if they only intervened to allow the proletariat to hold referendums

Well, obviously, but reality isn't so easy when you're just one socialist country in a world dominated by capitalism. This was very obvious to the Bolsheviks from the beginning, when during the Russian Civil War, 10+ world powers including the USA, Great Britain or Poland invaded them trying to help the Whites and to reestablish tsarist absolutism. The USSR was an example of what is called "Actually Existing Socialism". You cannot get a totally socialist country when capitalist relations still dominate the planet and threaten your very existence, as was the case in the Soviet Union. For example, the main drive of rapid industrialization In 1929 together with rapid land collectivization was not ideological, but geopolitical: threat of invasion. When geopolitical, and not purely ideological reasons, are behind a lot of your decisions, it's hard to do socialism perfectly. I agree we should analyze the problems and failures, but we can also look at the entire experience of the country and, judging by the results, it was very positive and arguably better than any system we've had so far.