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China actually has electric cars with 300km range for under $20k.
We're not allowed to buy them in the West because it would show us all how much we're getting ripped off by our rulers.
We really are stupid and paying the price everyday.
Those cars are 20k because the majority of chinese blue collar workers are treated like 19th century coal miners, with few labor laws or regulations to speak of.
We get cheap shit because of their suffering.
You're peddling talking points that exist to ensure you can't a better deal due to lack of competition and artificially inflated prices.
Have you ever had a banana? Guess why they're so cheap. We still get access to them and useful idiots like you don't complain because the banana market doesn't threaten the wealth of people richer than you can comprehend.
This is the problem, right here folks. Think tanks have been working overtime to make sure people like /u/whatamlemmy can feel justified in being cut off from more competitive markets.
Yeah and let's not even talk about all the clothes people buy that end up in landfills. Created by workers in horrible working conditions.
Yes, we should all be buying Hermes socks for $300.
Don't people complain about the inhumane conditions and treatment of the laborers by banana companies all the time? lol
No, they don't.
They also don't block importing them to the US.
The working conditions for the average banana farmer is also significantly worse than the average Chinese car manufacturers.
>No, they don't
It's a topic that I've seen pop up countless number of times
collapsed inline media
I'm not going to sit here and debate with you what "all the time" is supposed to mean.
Conveniently ignored this part because you don't have a rebuttal.
Also this one.
I'm going to ignore you now because you proved to me that you're an average idiot and not worth taking seriously. It's a shame people like you get to have more impact on the world, but that's why the world is the way it is.
Keep getting ripped off, and keep defending the people doing it. I don't expect more from you.
I focused on the specific part where I thought you were wrong. People do talk about the suffering if the banana plantation workers and it's been talked for a long time. As far as products go, that's one where the shit conditions are actually brought up often.
Same is true of almost everything you own, large groups of people stuck in poverty isn't an accident, it's on purpose and it's everywhere in this world sadly
so that's acceptable with, (checks notes), every other Chinese made product sold in NA and Europe but not EVs... no sir, we car aboot those EV workers a lot
There's more to this than JUST that. Not that you're wrong of course.
China subsidizes heavily because they want to be the only relevant player in the global EV market. These cars would cost closer to their non-Chinese counterparts if China wasn't doing this.
In global economics, this is considered unfair, and is usually retaliated against via tariffs.
Why wouldn't we let them in too drain the Chinese economy then. We would "win" in the short term by getting vehicles with fewer emissions while siphoning money out of the Chinese economy. Later when they could no longer afford to offer the vehicles at such a low price another company would step in with a superior product. At least that's what I've been taught about how capitalism works. Was that all a lie?
The Chinese government can afford to pay their manufacturers 10-20k euros per car indefinitely, there's no real limit to how much money they have. They'll continue until every western manufacturer is bankrupt.
I know you probably realize this, but no. It's not how capitalism works in the real world. In the real world, when you have products that cost billions to develop before production, it's nearly impossible for a new company to be competitive against a monopoly. And if the Chinese give away semi-free cars to everyone for a decade, everyone else goes bankrupt and they have a monopoly. OR other countries start sacrificing other budget items so they could subsidize their domestic car manufacturing and we just have... even more cars on the roads and less public transit, less walkable cities. Yay!
It's a complex subject, right? From a consumer's perspective, you could have a cheaper car, but your government won't let you (by putting tariffs on them, or just straightout banning them) because China is not playing fair. As a consumer you are paying a price because of your ideology. I don't know if everyone will want to do that.
And on the other hand, from the Chinese government's perspective, they aren't going to care if you think they are fair, as long as things are working out for them. If subsidizing means better product and/or markat dominance, why won't they keep doing that? There are markets that are more ideologically aligned with them willing to take their products.
So what? Their economic model is able to churn out better product at lower prices, and the useful idiots in the West (you) cheer because you get worse deals.
I don't care what "global economics" says. Have you seen the global economy? Do you think you're a player, or just another pawn (useful idiot)?
Now, run along and go be average somewhere else. I'm genuinely tired of arguing with you people.
Subsidies designed to bankrupt the competition isn't a better economic model
You'd have a point if the West could churn out competitive EVs.
Gonna block you now. I'm sick of stupid people and it's a shame how many morons agree with you.
More reasons for me not to take the crowd seriously!
Sure buddy, the highest quality stuff is from TEMU.
If it looks like a car, it's a car, right?
The west churns out BETTER EVs in many metrics. They just cost more because they're not subsidized.
If we allow the Chinese to bankrupt every other manufacturer using subsidies, guess what, they'll hike the prices 2-3x at least.
This is because at least here in the EU, governments want more people to use transit and fewer new cars to be sold, so they won't subsidize domestic car production. We even got a brand new car registration tax here as well as an annual road tax here in Estonia, do you consider that a bad thing too? Since it negatively impacts people's ability to buy more new cars...
Maybe understand the very basics of trade wars first lol
They're that cheap because the chinese government pays for them to be that cheap. It also helps that they exploit their workforce as much as possible, but they still wouldn't be as cheap as they are without the subsidies.
Oh my fucking god, it never ends with you morons.
So what if the chinese government pays for them to be cheap? Government intervention is literally part of their econony.
You, in typical dipshit fashion, don't recognize how you've been convinced to hate them simply because they can compete with your rulers.
Instead of recognizing how you're being played for a fool, you double and triple-down with all the other useful idiots.
I'm glad I can see it for what it is, because most of you are genuinely to stupid enough to do so yourselves.
Ignored.
There was no value judgement in mine (or the other guys) comment, that's entirely your victim complex. Of course I would rather china not try to destroy our local markets but that is very very low on the list of things to hate the ccp for and I can't say it's fundamentally morally wrong in the world we live in either.
It's just a fact that it's subsidized and your propaganda that it's cheap because china is just better at manufacturing is a flat out lie.
LOL. I thought you blocked us?
Good luck with your Chinese EV when you need parts and the company no longer exists. Three years from now.
This is called drop shipping, and we get cheap junk that breaks from China every day.
Their economic model is lose money on every car because the government is backing them.
They now owe 2.25X in debt more than the company is worth.
and some of them actually make it to 300kms.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/byd-seagull-front-right-suspension-arm-is-breaking-by-the-dozens-in-brazil-254141.html
I need more range than 300km and I'd be all over this if it uses LifeP04 batteries. I work 48 hour shifts, but drive about 150km each direction. Which means during the winter if I wanted to round trip it I'd need a 400km range vehicle.
Hope you gain the ability to charge for those 48 hours, seems like it would open your options
It would, but right now that's pretty much not possible.
On the other hand these probably have some kill switch integretated in them. Or some way to control them at some point which China could use as leverage.
Meanwhile tesla is regularly in the news about cutting off people's auto drive over payment issues or forcing software updates while the car is in motion lol
Also shitty and one more reason to buy a stupid car rather than some sort of surveillance truck with hundreds of sensors and cameras.