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[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 0 points 2 weeks ago (24 children)

I hate the mansplaining accusation, especially in this context

Fucking let ideas compete. Call him out for being pedantic. If you have to bring gender into nearly any conversation about science, you've already lost

Just shame them with better science

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

The term "mansplaining" is not just about a man being pedantic. It is a man being pedantic or overexplaining to a woman either about something she is likely more knowledgeable on than he is or about something that is such common knowledge it should be assumed that she knows these facts as well as he does. It is a demonstration of misogyny through the assumption that you, a man, knows better than her, a woman, despite all liklihood to the contrary and yet you condescend to her anyway. It's the arrogance and gender bias that is the problem, not the pedantry itself.

[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

through the assumption that you, a man, knows better than her

And what's the evidence that this happened here? You just assumed he was sexist.

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[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

The thing I don't like about the mansplaining accusation is it makes lots of men out to be sexist/misogynistic when they are really just pedantic twits that very well could have commented the same stupid thing to a man. But because it was to a woman someone has to accuse them of being sexist too.

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of sexist assholes, but just assuming it to be the case off a single comment irks me.

[–] Karjalan@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think the problem a lot of people here are having is that they're assuming the accusation is active sexism. Like it's a cognitive decision to go "phht, what would she know, she's a woman".

I suspect the vast majority of mansplaning scenarios are subconscious. They probably don't even know that's what they're doing abs would never see themselves as being sexist. I think that's because everyone sees the word "sexist" and associates it with clichéd extreme sexism, like cat calling, not wanting a Female pilot, ignoring their ideas in meetings etc.

The thing about subtle unconscious bias is that you're almost never aware you're doing it, but it still has similar effects on the affected group.

The healthy thing to do is to listen to the person it's affecting, analyse the scenario, and reflect on if it's something that you, or people you know, might have been doing without realising.

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 0 points 2 weeks ago

Counterpoint - explaining things the other party knows is how you get on the same page.

I don't give a shit about your degree or your gender, it tells me nothing about where you're at. Most people are fucking idiots who have no idea how anything works, and that includes doctors and probably astronauts

And I say this as someone constantly underestimated. Yeah, it's annoying to hear things you already know at a basic level. I ask people if they know about things and take them at their word

But this is just normal communication. I don't know what you know, you don't know what I know. I probably understand how your mind and body work better than you do, because most people don't know how their mind and body work beyond a 4th grade level

Explaining things the other person knows is undesirable. It's also how most people reach the starting line for a dialogue

[–] Soup@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

(New person here)

The big issue is that we don’t see men being pedantic towards other men at nearly the same rate. Absolutely it happens, but there is definitely a problem with men not respecting women specifically.

Part of it, I think, comes from social conditioning and it’s more of a reaction than anything on purpose when it comes to a large subset of the people doing it. Even still, it’s important to gender it at least sometimes to highlight why we might be doing it and to give us the correct thing to reflect on. I’ve done it before where I could say it to a man but I realized that I what I was saying or doing was fueled, at least in part, by some internalized misogyny. Knowing that has helped me get to it before I do something stupid.

[–] pahlimur@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Men are the most pedantic assholes to other men.

Treating women like they are soft little creatures is insanely sexist. Treat them as equals and they will treat you the same. I don't understand why it's so hard for other men to understand this.

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[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Okay, but do you not realize how big a problem being discharitable to others is?

The fucking fabric of society is falling apart. I'm sorry women get underestimated, like I do. It's very annoying, believe me, I deal with it constantly

But you suck it up, listen, and make them feel foolish with your response.

The alternative is a further breakdown of communication. You can't be primed to see others as bad actors, it's so incredibly damaging

No one is the villain in their own story. No one knows how smart they are, only if others are higher or lower.

Listening to people tell you things you already know is inevitable. It's social hygiene. It sucks, but it's the social contract

[–] Soup@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That’s a lot of words to say you don’t understand the difference. Not knowing something is fine, but fighting it like this is weird. You’re not helping anything with this comment and instead are basically trying to say that it’s not a problem enough to even talk about or understand. If you cannot handle this information that’s something to look inwardly at, not lash out at me for simply explaining what it is.

Women feel talked down because they are women and they can see the exact same men treating other men differently. I regularly see this happen to them, too. Sometimes it’s a small accident and sometimes it’s very much on purpose and all of it is important to understand. I don’t know why you want to pretend like it doesn’t happen but it does either way.

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It happens, I'm not denying that.

But the cure is worse than the poison. The term primes people to see it where it isn't there, and that's extraordinarily toxic.

Call them a misogynist and be done with it. I know it when I see it. You know it when you see it.

It's like man spreading. It's ok to be comfortable. It's not ok to push into other people's personal space. If you're alone on a bench, who gives a fuck. If you want to signal "I'd prefer no one sit next to me", that's fine until someone sits next to you. Then you're an asshole or you're not, we don't need extra words to gender niche behaviors

Words are perception. Labeling a thing primes you to see it. These overly specific, gender based labels are harmful

It literally makes the world worse for everyone involved to create subcategories of asshole behavior based on gender dynamics

[–] Soup@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

The cure is not worse than the poison. And if you admit that it happens, and you also say we should call them misogynist if they’re doing it, then calling someone out for “mansplaining” is exactly that except for some reason you don’t like it.

It’s giving “I’m fine with the protests I just don’t think they should block traffic or otherwise get in my way.”

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[–] exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

they are really just pedantic twits that very well could have commented the same stupid thing to a man.

Yes, but men experience this at a slightly lower rate.

So if an astronaut man were to get, say, 10 of these comments, while an astronaut woman gets 15 of these comments, it's fair to infer that about 5 out of the 15 comments wouldn't have been made to a man. Problem is that you can't exactly tell which 5 they are. But you know it's happening.

Of course, if the ratio is actually closer to 50 versus 10 comments like this, then you've got a pretty good sense that 80% of the pedantic overexplainers-to-an-expert are doing it because the original poster is a woman.

And one thing you find for these types of examples with a woman who has clear, unmistakable, objective indicators of expertise (literal astronaut) in the topic at hand is that the ratio is much higher for women than men, in a way that might not have been obvious for lesser credentials (like a high school science teacher). But yet, it still happens.

It's a name for a phenomenon that has existed for a long time. It's a concise way to describe that phenomenon, and I still think it's a good word to have in the vocabulary.

[–] ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

pssssh, sounds like typical Womanplaining….
that’s where a woman complains too much….
you see, in a typical post by a Man, they will get on average 15 complaints by women, but in a post by a woman, only five complaints by women… now you can’t tell which posts are Womanplaining and which ones are genuine complaints, but i think inventing new terms with “woman” and “man” attached to the front are the perfect way to achieve harmony between the sexes and don’t just reinforce sexism.
/s
all satire.
but, “mansplain” is hate speech and it needs to stop.
sexist condescending speech of men towards women is hateful and needs to stop as well….
inventing new slurs is counterproductive.

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[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Sure, but being an arrogant prick that thinks they're smarter than anyone else, regardless of gender, is already a thing that should be derided. Having only a single instance of this behavior being aimed at a woman as an example of his arrogance may mistakenly lead one to attribute that to misogyny instead of a general prickishness behavior, sure. But that's a perfectly understandable assumption to make in that situation and the mistake of calling them the wrong kind of asshole, i feel, is less of a concern than him, indeed, being an asshole.

[–] NotANumber@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

You can do that without calling someone sexist.

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

Sure. But it gives the appearance if sexism. Who gives a fuck if he is being an asshole if you mislabeled the kind of asshole he is. I don't.

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[–] moakley@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Sometimes people are being sexist. Mansplaining is a real thing that happens. You may not see the need for the word because you personally don't need it, but maybe you can understand that there a lot of people who do need it?

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[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

So you prefer defaming people just in case? I'm sorry but that's dumb.

At this point most people explaining things to others, assuming they're not knowledgeable, can be called racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic...

I feel like falsely calling out someone makes you a bigger asshole than someone thinking they're smarter. In a way, you think you're smarter and believe they only say these things because they're discriminating.

[–] ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

everyone knows that.
you just explained very common knowledge to people that certainly know it.
the problem is the terminology…
men and women condescendingly explain shit to people all the time. If you attach the word “man” to it then you’re being sexist.
when a man is condescending to a woman because she’s a woman, then that man is being sexist.
if you assume every time a man is being condescending to a woman they’re being sexist, then you’re sexist.
every time ANYONE makes a factual claim on the internet and it gets enough traction, someone will chime in and condescendingly explain why they’re wrong. gender is not the only factor.
….
it’s certainly terrible how men are sexist and condescending towards women so often… making a new sexist term doesn’t help that problem.
also, i’m not assuming your gender and you don’t know mine, i am merely disagreeing with you.

[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

that's mansplaining /s

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[–] ftbd@feddit.org 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

He's not being pedantic, he's just obviously not familiar with the vocabulary used in chemistry (although he pretends to be).

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 0 points 2 weeks ago

No he's making a specific type of joke, but if he were wrong then say that instead

And if you want more of that type of joke, look up not ken m

[–] firewyre@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago
[–] giantripdrop@piefed.social 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I just saw a person in a suit, then read the "mansplaining" comment, then went back and saw the posters name.

It feels so forced or I am just oblivious. I thought the response was an asshole being an "acktuallllllly" response.

[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 0 points 2 weeks ago
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