this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2025
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Dude, you're pulling 80 hour weeks for your company. That you own. Expecting the same input from people who will never see as much as a percentage of what you stand to make off of their success is delusional. But I suppose delusion is almost a requirement for these kind of people.
Personally theory.....
Many startups fail because people try to work 80+hrs per week. Biologically more than about 25-30 hours of work is usually a waste of time. You can occasionally pull a long week but then you need to rest and recover to get back to full productivity. If you push beyond it often, you'll make a shit ton of stupid mistakes that completely nullify all your efforts.
If you've ever been around someone "working" on hour 70+ during a week you'll know what I mean. A five minute tasks takes them an hour and they generally fuck it up.
I've worked for a few startups (in software). They all failed because their idea was stupid, the executives were technically incompetent borderline sociopaths, and they weren't even good at getting VCs to throw money at them. Some employees worked insane hours while others of us fucked off most of the time and came to work high - it made no difference.
Exactly!! Easy to pull so many hours when it is for your own business. But do not expect employees who could get fired or laid off any time at your own will to have the same commitment.
Yeah, 100%. This kind of advice can maybe make sense if you're starting a startup, but everyone employed at that stage needs to be on equal ground and well-protected. If they're not, then that can still be fine, but they can't be expected to put as much of their lives into your product. They're contractors you're hiring for some shit-shoveling and maybe it's best to be honest about that.
The unfortunate thing in tech is that, due to pushing "learning to code" as a universal employment option, there's always a pool of idealistic fresh blood that is willing to crunch for you if you make vague mention of being in it together, when a few people stand to gain the vast majority of the profit if the company's product is successful. By the time the new recruits are old and bitter and burnt out, you can lay em off for poor performance (or cannibalize the company at large) and hire some more doe-eyed interns.
If you're expecting your employees to consistently work long hours for you, they need to have the same stake as you do. They need flexibility to take care of their mental and physical health as needed. You should encourage them to unionize and collectively bargain for their needs once they come in conflict with yours, because they absolutely will. You can't afford to lose these people, because it's rare to find people that won't get ground into dust doing this because they want it as bad as you. so make it sustainable and more than worth their while. if you can't find these people? maybe your app sucks.
these types view themselves as above the labor they're hiring because they got there first / had the means to form a company and I fucking hate it.
The vast majority of people who start at the beginning of a startup will receive equity, so they are also co-owners.
Maybe for employees like 1-5. Beyond that is rapidly diminishing amounts of equity. I was employee #49 and got like 40,000 ~~shares~~ options (that I had to buy)
And even if you are like employee #3, the actual owner and investors get more than you
Exactly, there is a place in the world for startups burning 80 hr/wk. Just compensate the people who are doing that adequately with equity, and hire risk takers who want that kind of risk.
I agree in principle that start up employees can be incentivized better than the usual wage or salary slave.
There is always a big butt, though.
Non-capital investors almost always get shares of a lower class that can be denied a share of any future revenue from a sale of the company or god forbid they get real revenue.
These term “Hollywood accounting” exists for a reason and skepticism about the real value of lower class shares is very valid.
I think what he said about startups is more pr less true. Of course, with startups you're putting in a lot of work to break into or create a new market, and you get a percentage of that company, too. It certainly isn't for everyone, and most people don't want to do it for their whole career. And expecting that kind of attitude from a regular employee is simply ridiculous.
Depends how much equity they give their employees