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Remember how he ran on hope and change? How he presented himself as a progressive? Then how he failed to close Guantanamo, never even tried to codify abortion rights, didn't bother prosecuting the Bush administration for their war crimes, did a bunch of war crimes himself, and expanded the surveillance state? Because I do.
And like the other commenter said, he completely capitulated to the Republicans when they invented some bullshit about how outgoing presidents aren't supposed to appoint justices or whatever.
Obama personally promised me that he'd close Guantanamo, when I was a kid at one of his campaign rallies. He straight-up lied to me and didn't close Gitmo.
Did you not follow the entire Obama-era policy on Gitmo?
It was attempted to be closed, multiple times.
I think what you call spineless I'd consider being a decent politician in an indecent politician sphere
Obama isn't without criticism but calling him a war criminal is a bit of an eye roll in my opinion. It's usually about the drone warfare stuff and it is a drum the Republicans banged his entire presidency claiming he was drone striking everything possible. The truth is drone tech advanced in his presidency that allowed different missions to take place that removed soldiers from harms way, you'd probably make the same choice. It wasn't even his war, say we should've pulled out sure but look how poorly things are going now that we have. The war crimes he's accused of are dogpoop compared to the human rights issue that exists now. I'm sorry, I don't think it is the greatest things anyone has done but I just find the Obama is a war criminal argument so silly. Our entire government is a war criminal, this dude was not a warmonger nor did he do anything to escalate fighting. How you gonna dump it all on him?
Prosecuting Bush. For what? War crimes again? Our government has been doing war crimes forever. Every single person in that federal government should be charged. But Obama isn't going to arrest Bush because nothing would've come of it and again, on what exactly? Every judge, lawyer and politician wouldn't support that or respect whatever exactly the war crime was. So why pursue that? So redditors and Facebook dads have less shit to throw?
I'm not saying Obama is the best. Absolutely do not try to act like I have to be completely black or white about very complex issues. You will not put that on me.
But acting like Obama is the boogie man is literally because Republicans and the like have sold that messaging. Obama is a mid politician, I don't think he relishes in human suffering but he seems okay with a degree of it. But he was easily better than Trump, Biden, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, the Nixon baboons, Kennedy and Eisenhower. Carter is the only one who is a better man by a landslide but still not the best politician because he was also "spineless". People only liked Kennedy because he was a liberal who was assassinated. You wanna talk about war crimes? Look up Nixon/Kennedy era.
So yes. Obama is easily without contest best president of my lifetime and over the last 60 or 70 years.
Be real about this stuff.
A lot of these people would call Jesus a centrist. Their mythical ideal progressive will never exist.
Lol 100%. Liberals, the left, progressives whatever you wanna call them die because one criticism and folks act like they're basically Hitler or something.
Crabs in a bucket
Liberals and Leftists aren’t the same.
LMFAO how is that your take away?
"The worst thing for a (liberal/socialist/leftist/progressive) is another (aforementioned word here)"
That's the famous quote. Progress dies because everyone nitpicks it to deal. Obama wasn't perfect therefore he is Hitler, that is what people think of this as.
Simple. Liberals voted. Leftists didn’t.
Are you seriously saying since other people commited war-crimes, that Obama's war-crimes are no big deal?
I'm gonna hard disagree on this one: Bombing children is always a big deal. He didn't "remove soldiers from harms way", he deliberately put them there. And for what? Mostly, to help his friends make a whole lotta money.
Just because the Republicans are a horrid party does not mean that they are wrong about Obama being a monster. Both can be true at the same time.
Well to be quite frank with you. The US didn't ratify the literal protocols that talk about protecting victims of conflict. So in all legal senses, they didn't by their own metric. So if you obey the legal system, which I personally don't entirely embrace, no he didn't at all by American legal definitions. Sorry.
Now do I think the military is shitty and does shit? Yes. They're literally a monopoly on violence. If not them, then someone else would be. They're dogs of the state. I would never work for a state in the realm of harming people I think it's disgusting but the world isn't mine to control and some people are out there to hurt you. So what do you do?
Now this drone shit is fuckin dumb because is Obama flying these drones himself and plotting out missions to target the most civilians and innocent he can? Is he googling a list of brown kids to blow p? No. He's listening to his staff and generals and making decisions often with the idea of civilian lives in harms way. Don't believe me?
I think it's roughly 200,000 folks died in the middle east fighting since 2001 to 2023 when they left. That's 20 years. 10k a year average but I'm sure it's not steady or consistent. Afghanistan and Iraq I believe both have a population of 45million roughly so 80million. That's 10k deaths a year per 80 million folks.
In Ukraine alone it's estimated it's estimated to be 70,000. In three years. Population 38million.
In Palestine it's believed to be upwards of 58,000. In two years. Population 5million.
Those are the numbers. So what do you make of it?
You're gonna say war shouldn't happen. Yeah I fuckin agree but the truth is America is at war. And pulling out isn't really the option you imagine it doesn't just end there. They always really weren't bombing like it is perceived, effort was made to reduce casualties on both sides and stability in the area was better with American presence.
It's so easy to piss and shit and pick other people apart but I know you would've done a more shit job. Acting like Obama is the antichrist is fuckin goofy. It's why we have Trump. It's why we don't get progressives because one shows the smallest sign of it and y'all act like they're the devil if they make any errors. Y'all are eating Republican talking points.
Well, since we didn't sign papers saying that bombing children and other innocent people was a bad thing, then I guess it all can be forgiven. I guess we'll call it a "big oopsie woopsie" instead.
He literally bragged about how good he was at killing people. He knowingly picked targets, and knowingly approved the bombing of children. He sent soldiers to die on pointless missions that gained us nothing. You can keep telling us that it was actually a good thing all you want, but I think that tells more about your values than anything else.
I don't know what Ukraine has do to with anything. Why are you bringing up irrelevant data?
The reason we have Trump, is because of the failures of Obama (and the Dems in general). If he had actually done the things that he campaigned on, people wouldn't have given up on America. People were so desperate for "Hope" and "Change", that after Obama openly abandoned those ideals, a large chunk of people ran to Trump.
If "bombing children and torturing innocent people is bad" are republican talking points, then yes, I admit that I'm buying into them. I'm not ashamed to agree that those things are evil, even if it is the Republicans that are saying it.
Roll my God damn eyes.
You're dramatic as hell and it does not highlight the point you're making. When you look at other wars the death toll are far higher because Obama is literally explicitly NOT doing what your foolish ass is saying.
Trump happened because a bunch of bozos like you ate up everything they pushed on Obama and now they know how to slam the news cycle and plant your brain how they want it. Good job buddy you have no idea how to tell reality from crap.
Bad things in the past don’t justify future bad actions. Using that exact same logic it can be argued that opening a concentration camp in Florida is totally good and cool because we had Japanese concentration camps before. That’s fucking stupid and you know it.
What are you talking about exactly? The war?
Lol I don't think you understand and I don't really understand what you're talking about.
Nothing what you're reading is being said. What is being said is what war crime did Bush do that Obama could've even gone after him for without tanking his own political position and also absolutely getting nowhere. Do you think after Nixon any president will face true legal repercussions? On top of that, dunno how old you are, but Bush's whole presidency he was somehow seen as almost a little kid. He would goof, shrug say aw shucks and people would laugh and move on. In no universe I can imagine is Obama getting that guy prosecuted at all.
On top of that, aside from that. I don't think Obama did any war crime. I think people who say that are genuinely uninformed or stupid. That's a Republican fox news adjacent Joe Rogan ass take on Obama's military practices.
Bush has far more casualties, Trump removed the ability to see how much he was drone striking and also illegal used drone strikes against Congress approval.
You're not removing the military industrial complex from America, Obama is not going to be able to stop the war or solve anything really and that is clear in his handling of the situation. They attempted to train up a local force to hold peace which didn't work and they pulled from aggressive military campaigning to drone strikes and policing. Where's the war crime?
The last theater of war we engaged in (the cold war). They're napalming folks by the gallon, slaying babies in Vietnam, overthrowing governments galore and attempting to assassinate De Gaulle, Castro and whoever else they don't like.
Obama appears on the scene after all of this. After the CIA has gone rogue and the military industrial complex is both the heart and lungs of your economy. The war is already happening and your predecessors has made a lot of enemies for you. The fuck do YOU do in that instance? Really put yourself there don't give me some crap liberal socialist answer. I'm a socialist myself, ain't no fuckin way the world is letting me do what I wish to America in his shoes.
And he accepted an award for transparency in a "closed" meeting so attendees wouldn't have to sign in.
Killed two Americans in Pakistan with no due process.
Expanded the wars to six nations.
Then he had the gall to go on 60 Minutes and say that 20 years earlier he would have been considered a republican. Hated that shit.