this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2025
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Also, I don't think anybody honestly believes the argument that it is immoral to have children "without their consent." The idea that you cannot do anything to someone else without their consent is a very useful idea in 95% of situations, and this is clearly one in which it does not apply. I did not consent to being born, but I would have if I could. Imagine a bureaucracy in which to apply for a passport, you needed to have an existing passport. It just doesn't work. I can see the logic, but the idea has failed on a functional level. You can apply this to anything and make fake disingenuous arguments for any cause: "I don't think we should elect a president unless they've already been president before. I think it's a role where you absolutely need to have prior experience." "You need to consent before being born. Since it's impossible to do so, I guess it's just immoral to have children." See: Catch-22.
It is more difficult to have children now than it was 20, 40, 60 years ago. Some people feel the need to further justify their decision by convincing themselves that would be immoral to do anything else.
Yeah I've debated with antinatalists who used that argument. It's definitely an absurd stance on the face of it, though some aspects are worth considering. For example if you struggle significantly with cognitive disorders, and life is hell for you, you might want to ask yourself if it's a good idea to bring someone in the world who very likely will experience a similar hell. And of course socioeconomic concerns matter too. I've only ever had entry-level jobs, and owning my own house kind of feels like a distant dream, so having children is practically infeasible. Plus the whole living in what's shaping up to be an all out fascist dictatorship thing.