1385
To those in countries where democracy might last another election - harm reduction is not optional
(lemmy.world)
this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2025
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Every time I see people complaining about 3rd party voters all I can picture is the "Am I so out of touch?" meme. Like, y'all already shot yourselves in the face 3 times in a row and it surprisingly didn't fail 1/3 times, but you'll blame literally anyone but yourselves. Run a candidate people want, run policies people want, and support that candidate and those policies instead of throwing everything you can against them because you like money, and we would not be anywhere near where we are now. People vote for trump because they don't want another fucking "nothing will fundamentally change" politician. The country is already shit. It needs to change. But dems are happy with it how it is. They don't care about immigrants, or poor people, or social security, or women's rights, or whatever. They just hold onto those as carrots on a stick. They just want to keep making millions, and would rather trump win so they don't have to actually embrace populist policy. That's why people don't vote. The choice isn't ice cream or drive off a cliff. Its do we drive into a wall and die now, or drive off a cliff so it takes slightly longer to die, the drive off a cliff people shot the 2 people who asked if they could vote for ice cream and that's why the others didn't vote.
Their absolutely pathetic response to Mamdani's victory in the primary was so flagrant, I'm not even sure how to react to the Democratic party going forward. Not only did they try to stack the deck in Cuomo's favor, but then they threw a fucking tantrum when Cuomo still lost despite their efforts. They just don't seem credible to me anymore.
I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a concerted op going on to whip people into believing in an unending two party system forever.
Golly gee, if only there were some way that parties decided what candidates they were going to run, and what policies that candidate supported.
Unfortunately, as we all know, such decisions are made by The Secret Cabal and us lowly voters have no part in it.
Signed, someone who had a fever dream in 2016 and 2020 and remembered voting in something called a 'primary' for some 'Bernie Sanders' guy.
Sure dude, keep pretending the DNC doesn’t run anything and that they have zero influence or agenda and it’s all the perfect will of the people. You’re right, the people with billions of dollars in charge of the party are really just chill dudes who listen to what people really want.
Sorry for not thinking that every public poll was rigged by The Shadow Elite and that Bernie actually won the primaries by millions of votes which were shredded without a single hint of evidence left behind by the Puppetmasters of the DNC.
Maybe people are voting for what they want, and the issue is a lack of education...?
No, no, it must be the Shadow Cabal sabotaging all the polls. I'm SURE of it!
My brother in christ, could you strawman any harder?
NOBODY thinks bernie 'actually won'. Pretty much everyone who saw the 2016 election knows that Hillary won the primary, due to smear campaigns against bernie backed by establishment democrats. You know, the EXACT same thing that's going on with Zohran Mamdani RIGHT FUCKING NOW. He WON the primary, and not by some secret cabal type shit but by the will of the voters by running gasp populist policies that actually help out the working class. And the establishment DNC is doing everything they can to smear him even AFTER getting the will of the voters, in favor of Andrew Cuomo or Eric Adams.
"If liberals are so fucking smart then why do they lose so god damn always?"
Instead of blaming the leftists who may or may not have voted (which for what it's worth, I have never met a leftist irl who abstained voting even in a ruby red state) why don't you fucking blame the people who are actively driving the bus off the cliff?
Or how about you LEARN from the last decade?
Because this right here is why establishment dems AND republicans ain't doing too hot. You look at Trump's victories and never ask 'why did all these people vote for this fucking asshole?'. Instead, you write everyone who voted Trump as a racist or a sexist or a NAZI and while they're perfectly willing to associate with NAZIs, it's important to fucking learn why the fuck they voted for that asshole. And yeah, some of them definitely voted for racism or sexism reasons, but you're absolutely braindead if you think the fact that he ran on eliminating corruption ('drain the swamp') and ran on making things better for the working class ('price of eggs'). Was he lying? Yup. Is he a corrupt fascist? 100%, but unlike literally everyone else in the 3 presidential campaigns he ran in (excluding bernie ofc) absolutely NOBODY was speaking to the working class or populist policies. It was 'I'm with her' or 'Trump bad' or 'It's my turn'.
So, feel free sitting on your high horse saying 'oh, well if the voters weren't so dumb we would be at brunch' instead of focusing on the people whose entire job it was to inspire people to vote for them, and keep dividing the working class more and more. You're only playing into their hands, and yes I am talking about the billionaires that you're sucking off rn.
Both can be true. The major US parties are both rotten to the core and as such the leadership of the democrats has much of the responsibility for this, but people not voting are still fascism enablers, albeit to a lesser degree than those voting for trump for non-fascism reasons.
Voting third party is one thing, it's the only way outside of revolution you're going to escape from the established two parties. Not voting only signals apathy and the only explicit statement is "I'm ok with whoever wins, including the raping racist hitler v2".
Do me a favor pal: show me proof that it was leftists who didn't vote this time. In fact, show me proof that the people who didn't vote were against harm reduction. Show me any proof any evidence from ANYWHERE that the people who refused to vote... were refusing to vote? Show me any evidence that says that says anything with any certainty about ANYONE who did not vote?
Oh, you can't? Well that makes sense, because we don't actually KNOW who left the electorial arean. We don't know WHY they left the electorial arena, and we don't know WHAT they were thinking. So, I'd love to know why everyone seems so certain that it was the left who stopped voting entirely as opposed to the non-MAGA right or even the liberal center. And the reseaon everyone is CERTAIN it's the left if because that's been the reused talking point that's been dragged out every time there's been a lull in the insanity since Jan 20th. Almost like somebody doesn't want the subject to die. Almost like someone profits off of the left and the center fighting each other instead of fighting the 1%.
People who stopped voting entirely may be facism enablers, I'm not disagreeing. But, there's no actual, solid evidence to blame that shit on any one group in particular. And even despite that, it's absolutely INSANE that we're hyper focused on the imagined people we THINK didn't vote for the reasons we think they didn't vote, and yet IGNORE the people we KNOW voted for this and IGNORE the reasons they're telling us they voted for this.
Like tf? Thinking billionaires have been and are continuing to demonize any actual progressive candidate and are propagandizing broad swaths of the electoral is an inane conspircay theory when it's something we have seen evidence of time and time and time again, and in the same breath saying that people who voted for trump are lying about why they voted for trump based on 'just trust me bro' is absolutely ludicrous.
I never said it was the left lol, everything I said applies regardless of political leanings. Though in all likelihood there were at least some leftists that didn't.
Also the commenters that were saying as much on this extremely left leaning platform are probably the ones mainly adressed by OP.
Oh yeah, for sure. At least some of the voters that didnt vote were lefties. My b if I took what you said the wrong way. But the thing that has been driving me insane the last 6 months is all the liberals who've been blaming the left up and down and blaming the voters while having 0 flame for the Washington establishment that is quite literally the reason why so many people have checked out of politics. Like, yeah, be mad at the people who didn't vote, for sure. If that's irritating you, that's valid. As a leftist who did hold my nose and vote for Harris, I'm a little mad at the people who didn't vote because it hurts minorities like myself and others. But to hyper fixate on the people that didn't vote and brow beat them for not voting isn't going to solve ANYTHING. They've shown us what it takes to get them back to the polls. Now we either gotta speak their language or die. Love it, hate it, doesn't make a difference in the end. And being an ass about it isn't going to make them go 'Oh, wow, you're totally right, lemme go vote next time'. If anything it's going to split the left more (as is evidenced by this entire thread) and cause an irreversible spiral into fascism no matter if we have free and fair elections again or not.
Wouldn't it be fascinating if there was an entire field of study dedicated to questions just like that? Unfortunately, no such thing exists, so we all get to rely on our gut feelings and whatever information passed around the circlejerk that makes us feel self-satisfied about our preconceptions
If there's one thing that Lemmy has taught me, it's that people on the left aren't any smarter than those on the right. Just less vile.
"Next, think back to your decision not to vote in 2024. You will see issues that some say may have impacted their decision whether or not to vote. For each of those, please say how you feel about that issue." And in every category, the data YOU provided shows that most people who didn't vote WEREN'T GOING TO VOTE ANYWAY.
"This issue was important to me, and candidates positions on this issue swayed me not to vote." Gaza - 20% with 80% not being swayed or not caring about the issue that much.
Abortion Access - 22% with 78% not swayed/caring
Jobs - 14% with 86% not swayed/caring
Inflation - 25% with 75% not swayed/caring
Democracy and voting access - 15% with 85% not swayed/caring
Immigration - 21% with 79% not swayed/caring.
Climate change - 22% with 78% not swayed/caring
the issue which swayed most people NOT to vote wasn't a lefty issue like gaza, climate change, or abortion access, it was IMMIGRATION, which is an issue literally everyone on the political spectrum cares about in some way shape or form. Furthermore, YOUR study that YOU linked is pretty clear that most people didn't stop voting because they didn't like the issues, it was because they don't trust EITHER party to run the government.
"Neither party is trustworthy on this issue"
Economy - 38% compared to 31% for Dems and 18% for Repubs
Housing - 45% compared to 37% D and 8%R
Russia/Ukraine - 36% compared to 31D and 18R
Gaza - 49% compared to 18D and 16 R
Immigration 38% compared to 24D and 28R
Income inequality - 43% compared to 40D and 6R
Foreign threats - 38% compared to 25D and 21 R
In fact, the only times ANYONE is seen as more trustworthy than not on ANY issue is Climate Change and Healthcare.
Holy fucking shit, are you being serious here? Are you literally incapable of parsing what you just quoted?
... no, the issue was inflation, not immigration, by the numbers you literally quoted, but apparently can't read. Furthermore, it was the most important issue by a whopping 3%, with 'lefty issues' like abortion, democracy, immigration, and climate change making up 61% of 2020 Biden voters who chose not to vote in 2024.
What... what the ever-loving fuck do you think 'not trusting' a party on an issue means, exactly?
Christ. Do I have to hold your hand just to get you to read a paper?
I misread, sue me. Yeah it was inflation which is again an across the board issue. Again not a lefty issue. And yeah, lefty issues made up 60%, but nowhere in that paper did it state how much overlap between issues. Again, we don't have the numbers to back it up, but I bet you all the money in my pocket versus all the money in your pockets that at least half of the people who reported that Gaza swayed their decision ALSO reported that climate change, and abortion swayed their vote. And nice try adding in immigration and democracy as 'lefty issues' as if they're not ALSO across the board issues.
And not trusting a party on an issue is only really relevent if there's only one or two issues that people don't trust the party on. When people do not trust the party on 90% of the issues, they don't trust the fucking party. Which is exactly why 62% of democrats want new leadership in the party and that's just DEMOCRATS. Not even counting left leaning independents.
It would seem to be a very consistent pattern with you.
The total is only 158%, so only half of the average respondents would only have been able to signify even a single other issue as important to their vote. This is called basic numeracy. They teach it in most schools.
... fucking what? Are you taking the piss right now?
And it's more left-leaning leadership Democratic voters want, right?
... right...?
Maybe operating with the same boggle-eyed religious conviction that Republicans do about the Silent Majority wherein everyone secretly agrees with you, and all evidence to the contrary is a liberal conspiracy, is a bad way to approach politics?
...people not voting is a failure of coalition-building, full-stop...
...meanwhile, a successful coalition is now calling the shots instead; that's american democracy in action, like it or not...
I have seen numerous people on here say that Bernie actually won.
Oh goodness, I'm glad nothing like that would happen in the general election! If only the Dems had played fair, the GOP certainly would have!
Also, would you like to remind me what a smear campaign does? Does it alter the brainwaves of the hapless Moderate Voter(tm) to obeying their DNC masters or something?
... or does it appeal to their pre-existing ideas and prejudices to sway them towards a candidate?
No, that sounds too much like voters having agency, and not being mere conduits for the Will Of The Proletariat(tm). It must be the brainwave altering thing.
... okay?
Yeah, he won in the primary for NYC. Which is good. Great, in fact! But New York City is not all of America, and it's really quite worrying that so many people here think it is.
What does that say, then, if socialists are constantly losing to liberals in this environment?
If we're using success as a measure of intelligence or correctness, that would lead to some... very concerning conclusions that I would not buy into. But I'm also not the one connecting intelligence and electoral success.
Bruh, in the past few days alone, on this very comm, there have been numerous, highly upvoted memes and comments in which liberals are blamed for the current state of fascism in this country. I don't think "Antifascist unity, but only for anti-electoralists ^.^" is all that compelling.
And for the record, I do fucking blame the people who are actively driving the bus off the cliff. And I have done so vocally and repeatedly. But for some reason, many online leftists prefer a circlejerk to examining whether advocating against electoral participation may have helped the literal fucking fascist get elected by a single goddamn percentage point.
Jesus fucking Christ.
The fact that you fell for that shit - that people are just deeply 'economically anxious' or 'anti-corruption' goes to show how little you've spoken with conservative and swing voters in your lifetime.
Yeah, no one was running on a campaign of increasing the minimum wage, a national ban on price gouging, lowering the cost of living, increasing corporate taxes while reducing taxes on small businesses, legalizing marijuana, forgiving student loan debt, increasing child tax credits, and expanding public healthcare systems.
Imagine if someone did that? It'd be wild. They'd probably get incredible support, especially from leftists, and win in a landslide.
I mean, imagine if one of the major party candidates ran with that platform, and was still smeared as a neoliberal shill by self-proclaimed leftists who treated a Trump victory as a defeat for the dreaded shitlib menace? That would be absolutely ghoulish if people who claimed to be leftists were that dedicated to a Trump victory so they could continue to feel good and pure about being against The Man and The System. They'd have literal blood on their hands.
Good thing nothing of the sort happened, and certainly useful low-information idiots didn't pass that around, engaging in a level of coprophagic propaganda that would embarrass anyone with a hint of basic decency.
"When you don't think everyone is secretly a socialist at heart, you're sucking off the billionaires!"
I'm so sorry for not spending all of my time circlejerking with other leftists. I have the deep and abiding misfortune of actually living in the USA.
Lmao. You might live in the USA but your posting history tells me exactly what I need to know about how much you actually talk to IRL people. Dude you moderate like 20 communities and spend your days posting on HERE. You don't actually speak to irl people. And yes, as someone living in a ruby red state, volunteering with mutual aid groups and political action groups in a ruby red state, yes I HAVE actually spoken to conservatives lately, along with liberals, leftists, and people who have showered since this election. Get off the computer every minute of every day, actually go out and touch grass and DO something material in your life, because you look like a rage-bait bot with control issues who hasn't spoken to another living human person before. Assuming, ofcourse, that you're not just a shill account meant to spread propaganda.
Yeah, I take like an hour out of my day before work to make one whole post in each of the ~10 communities I mod. Clearly I'm out of control.
The urge to reply back to people who haven't the first goddamn clue what they're talking about is more damning and time-consuming, but I make room for it, out of miserable compulsion to not let idiocy go unchallenged in the comment sections I frequent, if nothing else.
And you still believe that they're just anti-corruption and economically anxious, like some Very Serious Liberal Writer ready to write his sixth consecutive election column about having pancakes with them good holsum country folk?
That's disturbingly naive that you'd still fall for that. But considering what you've said in this comment thread, unsurprising.
Pug. Long time fan here but I'm curious if you've read "Shattered" yet? It is a well researched book about the inner machinations of the Hillary campaign and goes into depth as to what / how things went horribly wrong. I used to think like you, but the reality is it's a bit of column A and a bit of column B.
Tl;dr: even if Bernie had polled well among mainstream voters, it would have taken mountains to move the whale that is Hillary. She had ties to every corner of the DNC. It's not totally that she had to rig the primary, but it was a fools errand to run against someone as powerful and well connected as her.
I can count on one finger the times that the person I voted for in a primary went on to win the general election.
And then he got brain damage and became a Republican.
Voting in the primaries doesn’t appear to do anything.