Dude, I would flee the US in a heartbeat to somewhere that isn't a fascist state if I feasibly could, as I kinda don't feel safe here as a citizen, let alone what anyone visiting the country may feel like.
Showerthoughts
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
- Both “200” and “160” are 2 minutes in microwave math
- When you’re a kid, you don’t realize you’re also watching your mom and dad grow up.
- More dreams have been destroyed by alarm clocks than anything else
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If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.
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So that “if I feasibly could” part is exactly what the poster is talking about.
Us citizen here recently moved to Sweden. I have a lot of things going for me: I was able to save up money working in tech, I'm using that to pay for living and tuition on a study permit, recently divorced and mostly estranged so I don't have a lot of ties holding me back, I have a sought after skillset and enough savings to basically be guaranteed I was accepted.
I'm still struggling with everything. There was and is so much paperwork, so many loose ends, even after getting here it's just been months of hardship trying to get stuff lined up. Trying to get my savings out of USD without interrupting being able to pay for things and not risk being flagged for money laundering is an ongoing battle. Housing here is wonky and I'm risking homelessness next year if I can't get it figured out in time. I have no strong community ties here yet so I'm toast if I stumble too badly. The US has their grubby hands all up in my business still so I'm answering to two countries at any given time instead of just one.
There are certainly avenues people can take to get out of the US that are easier than what I've done but anyone who says it is easy is full of shit or incredibly privileged.
I wish you all the best. I moved countries twice and had to learn 2 different languages. It's a struggle
On top of that, people have families, jobs, and other commitments that hinder their plans. Moving to another town is already hard enough as it is, but relocating to another country is even harder.
While it’s certainly possible and perhaps even advisable, it’s not a realistic option for most people. If your life is in danger, remaining isn’t really an option, so any associated difficulties with moving and starting anew are the lesser evil. However, for everyone else, the situation gets complicated.
Can't really immigrate as a disabled person. I'm basically considered unwanted trash by everyone.
Yup. Being disabled you're basically fucked.
Not entirely true. I've done the research. It's difficult, yes, but some places in the world allow it. E.g. Scandinavian countries.
It'll really depends on the disability since most countries have a big focus on ability to work in a sought after field
Just gotta have that doctorate in geoengineering (go into $200,00 debt in America to get it, never mind that)
Immigration is only easy if you're wealthy.
In addition to immigration laws, there are lots of other reasons that make it difficult to move. Aside from obvious financial considerations, it is difficult to just walk away from one's social circle. People often underestimate the importance of social support (I'm talking about friends and family here). Cultural differences compound this social isolation further.
Precisely this. My partner and I uprooted our lives to move to a new country. I left a loving community, a strong career, and so much more. I absolutely miss my home but didn't feel safe continuing to live in the states. I pulled the trigger first chance I could and I'm glad I did because there haven't been any since then.
We cry very often because there is so much just trauma and grief that we haven't been able to process. No one tells you just how hard it's gonna be. To give an example, I frequently hallucinate seeing or hearing my friends around my new city. Every time I do I have to hold back tears. I absolutely choke up whenever I video call them. Getting a visa is just the start of the process.
(Don't get me wrong, I also LOVE my new home, this country has been nothing but welcoming and we have had a super easy time assimilating and making friends)
Emigrating and immigrating as they are, poor people mostly cannot.
If it's not sarcasm in response to americans telling other people to just move to another country/overthrow government, it can be a common misconception. Yet I struggle to see where it comes from: as far as I can tell, "just moving to another country" is not something most people who work for a wage can easily do
This is correct. Ithought I could almost afford it, but I would need to save up an amount of money that is not really possible to save up in my situation and besides that I don't know if I could psychologically manage actually getting everything lined up and working properly in a whole other country. I've looked into it in depth, and it is incredibly taxing and difficult.
I don't know if it's something I could ever really manage, even in some of the countries that are "easier" to immigrate to.
Not everyone will be able to move, it's true, but a lot of countries have provisions for reclaiming citizenship if you can show that an ancestor (usually only in the last couple of generations, but not always) was a citizen.
For instance, Ireland: if one of your parents was an Irish citizen, born on the island of Ireland, you can claim citizenship and a passport with minimal paperwork. If your parents weren't born there, but a grandparent was, there's more paperwork involved, but you can still get citizenship and a passport.
Once you have a passport for an EU country, you have a lot more freedom to travel, and settle, anywhere in the EU.
Many other countries have similar systems, so, if you do want to leave, it can be worth studying your family tree to see if there are any recent immigrants.
if you do want to leave, it can be worth studying your family tree to see if there are any recent immigrants.
Family tree. 👀
I was born in China, I don't wanna go back.
I could theoretically try to recover citizenship, but nah, there is a reason why we left in the first place.
I did notice your username, so I suspected this might not apply to you, but maybe it'll be helpful to someone.
All I can really offer you is 'good luck, hang in there and this too shall pass', which is probably not a lot of comfort.
I wonder if there is any point at which China starts to look more appealing...? I know that's easy to say as someone with no experience in China, but we are speedrunning the dystopian shit here.
+1 social credit point to poto
I have -99999 social credits at birth
Reason: The crime of being the illegal 2nd child born in violation of the One Child Policy
Punishment: You now must have at least 3 children to fix the declining population/birthrate
PRC Government in a nutshell
(/joke, idk if the social credit thing is actually real)
I tried that route, but it turns out my folks left the Poland before it was modern Poland, so never held Polish citizenship. If only they'd sucked it up and stayed through World War I. /s
It's not even just the laws, it's very expensive to move.
I’ve also read “move to another state” a lot. Which is also much easier said than done, even though there are some very legitimate reasons. Moving from a low cola to a high one is tough.
I've always wondered how easy it would be to just move to Mexico or Canada, since either is possible to drive to. Like, legally or not.
They can deport you. Unless you try to claim asylum, but then you need to "prove" that the US Government is actually persecuting you, do you even have such "proof"?
Mexico is pretty easy. I think you can get a 5 year residency permit easily with no income or requirement to stay in country. Canada is harder and probably requires you to have a job lined up with an employer willing to sponsor. Or, you can go to school.
Stay and vote!! Talk to your neighbors and vote!!
Yup, it's no different than people retiring from the positions that could stop the current administration. You're just making it easier for them.
Cant vote your way out of a fundamentally oppressive system.
I could have gained citizenship in Spain or Portugal based on my family name alone (and like €600 or so) when they had the citizenship path for Sephardic Jewish heritage. I found out too late though and they had closed the door before I even knew about my distant relatives in the first place.
Wife is Irish enough to claim her passport so we're working that path currently. Those things are just your right to establish a life there, though, and don't include figuring out housing, source of income and everything else.
It certainly feels like we're going to miss our chance, but it's definitely worth it to keep working toward IMO.
I actually looked into migrating a bit under Bush and they were more lax then. It was at least a year waiting list, you often had to have a marketable skill of some sort in demand in the country or enough money to basically never work again there. You had to have a clean record, pay several thousand for paperwork and lawyers, wait for approval, some wanted you to try and find employment before hand. It's probably much stricter no as I doubt I could immigrate to Canada from the USA. They're looking primarily for healthcare workers now and a lot of places because of their aging populations and lower birth rates. It's nuts.
Not only the laws and the costs, there's also the fact that I just don't want to change the way I live. There's nowhere on Earth that has the things I have here, and I own land (admittedly only .25 acres, but still).
Americans have probably the easiest migration path in the world. Strong passport, very high wages and currency value, strong migration support and programs, remote friendly economy etc etc.
No, we can't just move some place. Most countries require a substantial income or huge investment. Incomes require jobs, and countries require employers to make an attempt to hire citizens first. Most of us speak one language too, so even if we go to the shittiest countries, we'll be vulnerable to scams.
There was a program across many European countries where the wealthy could basically legally buy visas: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/realestate/europe-homes-sale-americans-lisbon-barcelona.html?unlocked_article_code=1.8k8.8kzm.JXddN45A1l0k Was being phased out country by country due to jacking up housing prices, though, but on the other hand some countries have kept it while removing housing as a route: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/business/golden-visa-spain-europe-housing-crisis.html?unlocked_article_code=1.mE0.RznS.5NJdOYdNsasA
It’s not really jacking up housing prices in Portugal. Only 33k ever used the golden visa route there and that includes the non-real estate investment options. If you look at total real estate sales, golden visa transactions accounted for like 1%. That said, the perception caused them to eliminate the real estate investment route. The real issue in Portugal is they let 1 million people in on other visa types for a country that only has a population of 10 million.
The anger on the golden visa is odd. People are basically risking money in a country, not even living there, or consuming its resources, and may never. Some golden visas just involve giving the government a huge sum of money with no chance of recuperating it. In exchange, they get citizenship after a decade without even using a single government service.
If you want to start a business in the Netherlands as an American, you can get a visa under the DAFT program. You do need to bring the substantial investment of at least 4500 euro into the business.
And even then some countries like mine Uruguay are very easy to emigrate to.
How do you like Uruguay? Would you recommend it?
I don't think I can move out of Estonia any time soon, but sometimes I would like to escape to a warmer, but not super hot place... and Montevideo looks beautiful
You need income. If you have a job in your country, you can't take it with you unless it can be done remotely. I have looked into moving there. I still have not figured out if command terminals are in Portuguese if a person works as an IT admin somewhere.
Yeah. Apparently to these people, America is the only country that people can think of that has strict immigration laws. Everyone else is apparently open borders without question.
Yeah, some countries do have very strict standards for entry as much as the US; they'll choose only those they deem worthy by their standards -- entry is only possible with either level of wealth, skill sets, pedigree, language, or a combination of those.
However, there are some people in my country who envy and would even fight to get a chance to be American, despite the ongoing horrors in there, because they still equate citizenship in a developed country with wealth and supposed freedom from corruption.