I mean ... in a way? When one looks at it from nature's point of view, no organism has some "given right to live", all organisms try to survive. But do we, as a society, really want to live like animals, each for themself, without empathy, without solidarity?
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2025
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I'd argue that our social capabilities are our nature, rather than an exception to nature.
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So nearly got an upvote from me, but then you had to ruin it with a false dichotomy. Better ways
Oh, and also, I just caught before clicking reply, "given the right to live" is a moved goal post.
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I've always believed that everyone should be able to have, for free, a permanent private living space of at least 80sqft, a reasonably comfortable bed, access to a toilet and shower and associated toiletries, clothing suitable for the weather, water and food (even if only some flavorless nutritional paste), and access to medical care both as-needed and on a regular basis. if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent, then so be it, for a society to provide any less is immoral
And think of the world we would create if this were the norm.
The majority of people everywhere are ambitious, industrious and want to be useful. So you'd end up with a world full of people doing creative things ... and entire groups of people doing creative, inventive and useful things together.
They'd figure out things like building space elevators, new industrial technologies, the cure for cancer (which would probably be redundant because everyone would automatically be able to afford to take care of their health), stabilize global warming, create alternate forms and sources of energy and begin the process of exploring space beyond our own system.
Instead, we have a world where a hundred people own all the wealth, a billion people who think they're wealthy but aren't and 7 billion people struggling to get by .... and all of them fighting to become king or queen of the world.
The best argument for UBI isn’t that it’s an inherently decent thing to do, it’s that it would legitimately make the world better for rich people too.
UBI would never work with rich people in the world. The unfettered American form of a capitalist system is incompatible with life because the rich will never stop trying to take ALL the money, better world be damned. The system must be changed first.
While I agree with the mindset, I share the same view, some of your details are kinda...barbaric
permanent private living space of at least 80sqft
That's the size where prison cells float around. Iirc there was a study done that concluded that for an average person to remain mentally healthy they need at least 3-400 sq ft per person. Allowances must be made for families and partners
even if only some flavorless nutritional paste
Shit, that's been widely considered to be cruel and unusual punishment for prisoners. There's a balance between "not even good enough for prisoners" and "Lobsters every night"
if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent
Yeaaa there's plenty of other ways to entice people to work or to aspire. You don't need to make people eat flavorless paste, just luxury material goods alone would be enough. Like a decent smartphone, games, attractions (amusement parks, circuses etc), electronics etc. Plus most people want to work anyways just to have something to do
If we enacted your plan as-is, the suicide rate would skyrocket lol
I absolutely love your still very capitalist driven word choices and ideas. It really illustrates the depths the capitalist system influences. "Hey you're alive, but only deserve bare minimum treatment, an unreasonable amount of space and flavorless food paste! The good life is still only for those that aspire!"
Everyone deserves more, it's just that the whole things collapses if nobody does any of the things that make it happen. There needs to be a limit on those who are a "drain" on the system, and placing it at some sort of base-level dignity is a practical evil at least until such time where there is so much abundance it won't matter.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. If you want more than what you need, then it has to come from somewhere.
I'm sure there are better solutions if we assume we can dismantle and rebuild all of society any way we want, along with the attitudes of those who inhabit it, but I think it's worthwhile to consider how current systems could be improved
I'm not talking about my personal vision of utopia, I'm talking about the bare minimum of a society that can begin to be considered just, even in a very hollow sense
Capitalist Realism.
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“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in 10,000 of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.” — Buckminster Fuller
Life isn't exactly easy for most of nature. Animals starve and are killed continuously. It has been the same for most of human history. We may have overcome challenges regarding having sufficient resources, but we haven't overcome all of the obstacles that our selfish animal nature continues to produce in society.
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There are a great many things I would like to do, but don't do, simply because it is not economical. Even when I find employment doing something I enjoy, I am forced to do it at an increasingly fast pace, and I know that what I'm making is low quality garbage that will be discarded quickly. How can one be expected to take pride in their work under those circumstances?
Capitalism murders your soul, and blames you for being soulless.
And most of the work that actually contributes something to society has shit wages, while the jobs that don't contribute anything or are detrimental to society have insanely high wages.
I'm secretly hoping that AI takes out banking jobs and VC first, just so that that the moneylickers have to confront their new reality of who they are without it
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Man, those pro life people will be so mad when they find out
Well, the reality is that it does take work to live, sort of by definition. That is unless you envision life as existing in some sort of techno-uterus, being pumped full of nutrients a la the Matrix. But seriously, a fulfilling life does take work. A social safety net shouldn't mean there is no expectation to work. There should be both.
I agree 100% with you. Everyone wants to be a socialist/communist until they realize that you still have to put in your fair share. There isn't some magical system where everything is suddenly free for everyone. Mooching off others isn't the way ANY economic system works. It's what we have now, and it's failing. Just because it's you instead of some fat cat doesn't change the fact that someone is trying to get something for free. Everyone works so that everyone prospers. What needs to change is who owns the labor. You work for what you have, not what someone else takes from you. Maybe one day we can live in an automated utopia where all our basic needs are provided for us, but we aren't there yet, and anyone who says we are is ignoring the other thread they just spent ten minutes writing a comment in about how the AI bubble is about to burst.
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I remember as a kid being told god hates us and we have to spend our lives earning his love. Like wtf? Im automatically hated by being born? This is the same energy as the posts if not the source of the belief.
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i fucking volunteer to labor for humanity. Fucking pick me when we get the socialism please.
Isaac Asimov said that in the future one third of the population would be scientists working on new discoveries; one third would be engineers mananging all the technology; and one third would be entertainers.
Well, I think we are on track with the entertainers part, at least.
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There are a few folks who don't deserve to be alive... Unfortunately they don't need to "earn a living" as they happened to be born silver spoon in hand...
Similar to "make money", it's an insidious Orwellian mislead.
"Make money" =~= "profit" =~= "wealth extraction".
I remember talking with a fellow Hungarian who happened to be a "moderate" conservative, and he told me there's nothing wrong with Fidesz making our country for cheap labor, because some of those cheap laborers can be promoted to be middle managers in the factories.
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