fuck's sake Germany
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Sorry, best we can do is deport some brown people.
It's been very interesting since I've moved to Germany.
I'm white, and not once during train checks have I ever been spoken too or asked for my info.
However, every single person that's slightly tanned is asked for their identification. Also the German officers often speak English to these people they suspect of being here illegally. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the person they're questioning respond in Germany and pull out a German passport or one from an EU nation. But if I had to guess I'd say 9/10 times that's the case. In the remaining 1/10 times the questioned almost always pull out a visa or a valid passport.
It's a huge waste of time and I've only seen 1 person ever taken off the train.
Frankly border checks like this are pointless. They select very few people to ask for their documents. Frankly if I was in a position to be entering the country illegally from one of the bordering nations I'd just walk across and take a bus to the next town over before taking a train. It's not like there are border guards at most crossings, they only ever check the trains, and don't check outside of border crossing. All of this to say it's security theater that isn't accomplishing much, is a waste of resources, and is usually racist in application.
Having come from the US this is infinitely better than ICE. The officers are at least polite about it and once they recieve paperwork quietly move on. While the racial bias is clear the checks are non-invasive and quick for those selected.
Nobody is being dragged into unmarked vans that I've seen. Nobody is being randomly detained and searched on the train. Trust me it can get a whole lot worse.
Even before the Trump administration ICE was way more aggressive and abusive when they began questioning someone. German border control seems to either be better trained or have more limits on their power.
By acknowledging what they are doing wrong now and how frankly ineffective it is hopefully you can avoid becoming like ICE. But if things continue on the current path it wouldn't be good
In continental Europe you must have governemnt ID and in some countries you have to have it at all times with you and show it to authorities if requested. If I understand USA correctly there is no such system in place over there and thus enforcment is kinda difficult.
Yes the 4th amendment makes it to where police cannot simply check your ID, and as you said it's not required to carry either.
enforcment is kinda difficult
Our police should be trained to respect our citizens and their rights. Too bad that makes it difficult for them. Instead they are trained to be belligerent to get what they want.
I agree that police should be nice. Just wanted to point out that its vastly different system.
In continental Europe you must have governemnt ID and in some countries you have to have it at all times with you and show it to authorities if requested.
I can't speak for the other continental nations but that is not correct for Germany. You just have to have an ID. You don't have to have it with you at all times.
The germans are against this. Our fucked up politicans are not
You see, you thought Germany would value privacy but you forgot that Christian Democrats and (Anti) Sozial Democrats simply hate human beings.
Nah i knew the SPD loves it. They advocate for it for years
We shouldn't discuss this bullshit at all. It's simply wrong from the beginning.
So if I get it right, it seems Signal or Threema are safe, if they decide not to scan? But yeah, WhatsApp or FB Messenger probably want to scan absolutely everything, if they're allowed to.
Whatsapp already legally scanned for years, because the proposal is just an indefinite extension of this temporary regulation from 2021 that would have expired in April 2026 otherwise:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32021R1232
Services are currently allowed to scan you if they want to. It is shit, but it is also literally just the status quo. Nothing changes.
Something changes: we won't be having this kind of engagement with the topic every time this exception needs to be renewed. Which means they have resources to allocate towards other goals, like finally making the scanning mandatory.
I don't follow your argument. They repeatedly tried to use the expiration to generate pressure to come to a fast agreement. The pressure is gone now and so is a big reason why this topic was discussed so often in the first place. It will be harder for the advocates now to explain to the rest of the member states why it should be put back on the agenda. Countries like Germany are still against mandatory scanning and have no reason to engage in a discussion about it now.
The only thing that is lost now is the chance for all of this to expire, but that was always very unlikely.
It will be harder for the advocates now to explain to the rest of the member states why it should be put back on the agenda.
All it takes is some form of crime that remotely looks like it could have been prevented by client side scanning. Be it child porn, be it terrorism, be it some big drug case. Now that scanning isn't an exception anymore but generally allowed, the step to "just" forcing everyone to do what the big companies are doing anyways, won't be as big.
In short: Assuming that they won't have reasons and pressure to put this topic back on the table seems unlikely to me, considering the amount of resources they have continually put into this already. Especially since Germany seems to shift more and more towards more autoritarian tendencies itself, a few repetitions might be enough to finally topple their resistance
Resistance to mandatory chat control seems to be the one thing that every current german party agrees on. Even the literal Nazis of the AfD voted against it. The point of discussion in Germany was always if there should be a voluntary chat control, not if there should be a mandatory chat control.
A shift away from that position across party lines would be very hard to orchestrate and I can't see that happening anytime soon.
The AfD is, for all their faults, relatively libertarian when it comes to privacy rights. That might be because they have a lot to hide, but that's besides the point. It is definitely not because that's "too right wing" for them.
We have had a push for "Vorratsdatenspeicherung" basically every legislature period which is kind of in the same category of "wtf stop doing that". Ironically it was the FDP that saved us when the SPD in the last coalition tried to implement that. Not sure the CDU is going to stop Dobrint when he has his go at it.
I don't see it as a grand departure from current party lines, except for the AfD while the Greens are very ambivalent between their fundi and realo party wings.
Well yes, but I don't see data retention of IP adresses and real-time scanning of the content of private chats as necessarily the same topic. Obviously they are both bad, but they are different things, which is also reflected by the parties having very different views on both.
Me and you, we get that there is a difference. I am not convinced a majority of politicians, especially not German ones, get that.
At least at the moment they seem to get it. We will have to see how it evolves.
iirc Signal would stop service in the EU, can’t even blame them, if their M.O. is illegal they can’t really do anything else
What a shitshow
I think we are at a point where the only way foward is to see some heads rolling.
Said that years ago, but everything is just getting worse and worse all the time.
https://fightchatcontrol.eu/#contact-tool
edit: Please write your own little text, possibly with a moderate amount of outrage. The texts on the tool are old I think and personal texts always have more impact.
It doesn’t seem to be voluntary at all, from what I can tell from the draft:
“Upon that notification, the provider shall, in cooperation with the EU Centre pursuant to Article 50(1a), take the necessary measures to effectively contribute to the development of the relevant technologies to mitigate the risk of child sexual abuse identified on their services. […]”
"In order to prevent and combat online child sexual abuse effectively, providers of hosting services and providers of publicly available interpersonal communications services should take all reasonable measures to mitigate the risk of their services being misused for such abuse [...]"
These quote sound mandatory, not voluntary. And let’s look what these technologies referenced are:
“In order to facilitate the providers’ voluntary activities under Regulation (EU) 2021/1232 compliance with the detection obligations, the EU Centre should make available to providers detection technologies […]”
“The EU Centre should provide reliable information on which activities can reasonably be considered to constitute online child sexual abuse, so as to enable the detection […] Therefore, the EU Centre should generate accurate and reliable indicators,[…] These indicators should allow technologies to detect the dissemination of either the same material (known material) or of different new child sexual abuse material (new material), […]”
Oops, it sounds again like mandatory scanning.
The new draft seems to pretend better to look less mandatory, but it still looks mandatory to me. Feel free to correct me if somebody can figure out that I'm wrong.
It's been pretty obvious for a while now that this is happening, no matter how many people are against it.
It's not a lost cause though, resistance is at least slowing down it's implementation and possibly weakening it's legal base. But i get you're sentiment, it does not look like they will stop comming for copies of our digital conversations.
This is going to last exactly as long as it takes for someone to hack into some prominent EU politician's phone and messages and publishes them for the all the world to see.
I would pray for the hackers swiftness in breaking into this compromised system but I fear that a lot pf innocent people will be victimized long before someone important feels the burn of having their life destroyed.
Politicians have been exempt from chat control in all the proposals so far.
Might happen to them on a private phone though...
What can I, as a EU citizen, do to stop this? I already sent (handwritten) emails to my French representatives several times, but only got one response from a minority part^ that agrees.
Demonstrate in the streets
Right, I should have mentioned despite being French I live in Germany. Still, can't hurt to join any demonstrations against this.
I'm into it. Would love to see some good ol' activism again. Politicians probably hate it much more than writing Emails (sending Emails are still a good tool though).
One thing we should all be campaigning for, regardless of not wanting it to go through, is that,
If it is to go through, then NOBODY should be exempt from having their devices scanned.
We will see how many politicians are willing to push it through then. I'm willing to bet that many of them will do a U-turn when they think that their own devices and emails etc.. Will be scanned.
This is good... but partially admits defeat. It's a good fallback though.
Which part?
Typo, meant to write "party" The French party against it that replied to me is le groupe des Verts/ALE. They will have my vote on the next election.
Oh, c'mon! Why can't we get this straight!
And the cycle of a centrist doing the far-right's biddings, they lose polularity and in turn election to the far-right that claims to be against it, then the far-right to expand it begins.
This type of scanning should be illegal. Talk about working against the citizenry. If anything; government workers and politicians should have their communication scanned and completely transparent.
Voluntary my ass. You’re just going to tighten the thumbscrews in less obvious ways to get what you want out of them.
Feddit.de now is your time to pull your weight.
feddit.de doesn’t exist anymore it’s feddit.org now
Great...just...great