I mean even THIS YEAR the South Korean president made a fascist power grab and was arrested and removed from power. I would call that a successful attempt to stop fascism.
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The Irish called it "Irish Democracy" when they were under British rule, the silent, dogged resistance of millions who simply ignored laws they found illegitimate. Don't protest. Don't riot. Just don't comply.
We already have two incompatible visions of what America should be. One side wants a multi-ethnic democracy with a social safety net. The other wants a white Christian ethnostate with unlimited corporate power. These cannot coexist indefinitely.
Okay, but that's also not true. The "blue" states are more than happy to extend unlimited corporate power to right-wing plutocrats. Silicon Valley, Wall Street, and the Big Three Auto Giants are all based out of Liberal turf. They're centered in bright blue municipalities, even. The liberal institutionalists don't seem to lift a finger for fear of wounding the Golden Geese of industrial fascism.
Blue states could request UN election monitoring.
The OSCE and the OAS already employ election monitors within the US.
The author of this article seems deeply misinformed. Neither can I find any corroboration of the research findings. I can only note that countries like South Korea, Chile, Cuba, and Mexico all ultimately ousted their fascist dictatorships and resumed a semblance of democratic function within a decade or two of their coups.
Fascism isn't a permanent state of affairs nor is it a particularly stable form of governance (particularly over continental-sized landmasses). Fascist state leaderships can and do fail, paving the way for reformists and revolutionaries of varying stripes. And those reforms/revolutions can, in turn, fail and give birth to new generations of fascist government.
Literally WW2 stopped fascism. And I'm sure plenty of other times fascism was stopped at smaller scale. The punk scene for example.
Stop with this doomerism and actually get out of your comfy couch.
Did you even read the ~~fucking~~ article?
Based on the historical record, there are exactly three ways this goes. Option one: Stop them before they take power. Option two: War. Option three: Wait for them to die of old age.
As far as doomerism goes, he outlines several possible avenues to stop things that require us getting off our “comfy couch”.
If the success rate is zero then how does he have successful attempts to pull these tactics from? Maybe don't sensationalize a headline for clicks.
Is the headline clickbait? Sure. I’m not defending that. Guess the author could have incorporated this into the headline:
Once fascists win power democratically, they have never been removed democratically.
Feels like these are a bunch of nitpicks that distract from the main point of the article - that we need to act urgently and drastically to hope to stop this before fascists consolidate power.
I'm just saying if that's you point, "shits hopeless" is a pretty bad headline. What you wrote was much better.
To be clear, I didn’t write that, it’s from article.
Yeah, you called someone out with "did you even read the fucking article?". Should they? Sure. But yelling at someone for taking the headline at face value wasn't warranted. Instead of talking down to them, maybe try an approach that gets people on your side and doesn't make them think "whatever, fuck this douche". And yes, I know I'm doing that to you now. It's intentional. I have no desire to bring you "to my side". I just think shitty behaviour should be publicly shamed more often.
I just think shitty behaviour should be publicly shamed more often.
Hear, hear!
The funny thing about your comment was that was the same sentiment I was expressing towards the other person. So point taken I guess?
Also, when I said “it’s from the article”, I was literally trying to give credit to the original author, since it seemed like you were attributing that to me. Feels weird to be downvoted for that.
I'm not responding to both of your comments separately. Take this as my response to both:
Please see the comment you responded to about telling them to "read the fucking article" like a douche. So, to quote you, "did you read my fucking comment?"
Again, there was no need to talk down to them like that.
"Actually, in the full article, the author elaborates that they really mean X and give these possible solutions..."
See how it can be done without the douchenozzlery?
If you want people on your side, maybe have a little bit of grace.
So all of this tone policing because I wanted to say RTFM, decided that the initialism didn’t work with RTFA and spelled it out instead, and failed to drop the superfluous “fucking”, thereby making it sound overly harsh. I thought since “fucking” was modifying “article” that the profanity wasn’t directed at the commenter, but still expressed some exasperation on my part.
You’re right, I should have dropped the “fucking”. I was upset because I had just read the article about a topic that concerns me greatly, scanned the comments to see if there was any sense of solidarity that “hey, this is a problem we need to address” and got frustrated when the first comment I read was something that shot from the hip and completely ignored the entirety of the actual article. If not for that, I probably would’ve edited the “fucking” out. That was a failure on my part.
You’re right, that did come across overly aggressive and I apologize to the original commenter. It’s hard to convey tone with text and obviously I failed to communicate this as I never intended my comment to sound so aggressive that it warranted everything that I got in response.
Go back and read everything I’ve written, but omit the word “fucking” and I think you’ll see that one concession to my frustration stands in contrast to the rest of my messages where I was blunt but otherwise respectful. I provided quotes and deflected credit to the original author when it seemed like the credit was being given to me. I never engaged in personal attacks and my only actual criticism was literally that opening line. I hope that demonstrates my true intentions, which were apparently buried by the overly aggressive opening.
I’ve since been told I have shitty behavior and that I’m a “douche”. I never called anyone names, and literally my only call out was “did you even read the fucking article?” You’ve been an order of magnitude more aggressive than I was in the first place and I’ve gotten downvoted and chastised and called names while you’ve gotten supportive comments. I’ve apologized for my behavior without any expectation of reciprocation.
I hate conflict. I hate arguing. It makes me want to just not participate at all online. I don’t need this and as an autistic man it gives me a great deal of stress. I don’t expect you or anyone else to understand or care which is why ordinarily I just lurk online because people seem so eager to jump down my throat. Feels weird and shitty to be accused of doing the same when I failed to police my tone appropriately.
Normally when I do speak up, I’m a consensus maker, trying to bring people together. In fact, this particular topic inspired me to speak up because I’m deathly scared of the direction that current events seem to be headed and I wanted to set my comfort aside in the hopes of seeing that there were other people who wanted to combat this.
It’s disheartening that as fascists worldwide are gaining traction, the most relevant article I’ve seen in a while about it and what to do about it has had discussion completely derailed by criticism about the clickbait headline and subsequent tone policing. If this is where all our energy is going, no wonder fascists are seeing so little pushback.
I get your frustration and honestly I probably took some shit out on you I shouldn't have. You didn't deserve it either. I didn't exactly live by my own words, did I?
Yeah, this whole thing got fucked up. I'm sorry. You're a good person and I shouldn't have kept piling on. I used you more as a vehicle to vent at someone than anything truly meaningful. You didn't deserve that and again, I'm sorry.
Don't let me scare you away. I'm an admitted unapologetic ass myself. I've gotten so tired of being nice and seeing everything still go to shit that now I'm just tired of being nice. But that's not fair and doesn't help either.
I dunno what else to say other than fuck me and I hope you move past this and keep posting.
I totally get the frustration from watching people talk past each other, neither side taking anything positive away from the exchange, arguing for the sake of arguing or a misplaced desire to “own” the other one. It’s exhausting and there’s lots of times I want to do exactly what you did, so I truly do understand.
No hard feelings, and I really do appreciate the apology. We all get heated sometimes… it’s easy to do on the internet, especially when text makes it easy to misinterpret tone.
It’s nice to end things on a positive note and on the same page - as I said, I’m a consensus builder. For what it’s worth, you were absolutely right that taking your emotion out of your argument and just being sincere works, at least when someone is approaching things in good faith, which I believe we both were.
I'm glad we recovered this convo too. Keep posting and I hope to see you around. Keep up the fight✌️
A clickbait headline means you are bullshitting me right from the start.
The number of times a liberal democracy older than 50 years has turned to fascism - also zero.
Liberal democracy is surprisingly resilient, once it matures.
Okay, then, time to just give up, I guess.
/s
They've never tried in the U.S., with our government system. What happened elsewhere before means nothing.
Seems to me you already lost
We lost, time to arm up.
Fascism already won the USA. Whether or not the people take the power back is up to the people, or whom ever survives WW3.