Selfhosted

I use proxmox has the base OS to deploy different virtual machines/LXCs depending on what I need. I have a dedicated docker lxc among those. Say what you will about docker, and man do people have opinions, but proxmox is probably the best way to run a multi lxc/VM setup. Highly recommend regardless of what else you do.

If you’ve got Debian already installed, I cannot resist advocating for Incus (stable branch from Zabbly repo with web ui https://blog.simos.info/how-to-install-and-setup-the-incus-web-ui/) in lieu of proxmox. Does the same thing but you don’t have to rip out the kernel Debian uses.

With Debian 13 you have access to podman quadlets, use that for any non-vm needs. The ease of docker compose files easily removes reason for programs in LXC containers, and podman removes reason for docker in an LXC. LXC is left only for programs that aren’t containerized. VMs for security DMZ. Podman for bulk of stuff you want.

Good luck!

There is no wrong answer but the right answer is Proxmox.

Definitely Proxmox as base OS, Docker inside.

i just came into containerization recently and skipped Docker completely and went straight to podman. it's been fantastic and integrates well with systemd. i would recommend anyone new to do the same.

since you're not new, and are looking for something different, i would say do podman instead of docker.

Proxmox can run lxc containers natively.

Personally I keep a Debian VM for docker, a holdover from before hypervisors supported containers natively. I use docker compose and it Just Works™.

I run Proxmox in my small cluster. Proxmox runs multiple VMs that each run various groups of docker containers.

They're on different levels.

Proxmox is a hypervisor. I would install that as your os if that is something you want.

If you just need containers, podman is good. Docker is fine, but podman is open source.

That being said, I run proxmox on my server and have various vms running. I have a laptop that I will use to play with containers and if it turns into a service I want I'll make it run on proxmox, either as a container itself or as something running on a VM on the hypervisor

Proxmox and Docker don't really do the same thing. They live in the same area, but the coverage is very different. You can always use docker when your host is running proxmox: either individually or in groups inside of an lxc, or all in w dedicated VM, or even natively on the same house if you prefer chaos. But you can't do the opposite: Sometimes you just need a VM. Maybe you only need a couple of devices, and you know they run on or are even designed for docker, then that's the better option. In all other cases, and when just getting started, proxmox is just the way more universal solution if you're only planning on having a single host (for now).

The management tools in proxmox are great. The community scripts are a fantastic resource and only work with proxmox. I would suggest you set it up natively, not on top of Debian though, even if that's already installed. Not the least of the reasons are to be able to use ZFS easily, including on on the boot partition (select that in the installer).

Finally, if you're gonna stick with docker, like others said: consider podman. That really does the same thing docker does, but it's fully open source. Arguably it's better in some areas, but on the flip side might, in occasion, require fiddling with something intended specifically for docker and using advanced setups.

Also there really is no wrong answer, either. And you can always change whatever you choose.

@JeanValjean I am not in a position to judge but Id be interested to hear comments on this position.

From the Proxmox Discussion Forum

Linux Containers (= LXCs) and docker containers are something completely different. LXCs are system containers. These contain a full OS except for the kernel which is shared with the host. You will have to administrate them like you would do it with a VM.
Docker containers are application containers where you containerize a single appliance. You don't individualize/upgrade them. You just throw them away and create a new one. So you are quite limited what you can do with them, as all you can configure is what the container creator wants you to be able to change.

So if you want a service as secure and independent as possible, or if you want to use Win/Mac/FreeBSD, use a VM.
If you want something like a VM running Linux, but you want less overhead, at the cost of security, use a LXC.
If you just want to run some services but you don't want to invest time on learning how they work or administrating them, then running a VM with docker would be a good choice.

Proxmox with all of its warts appears to be the better hypervisor. If your host has the headroom like others suggested: proxmox with a VM hosting docker/podman.

I have to say running proxmox saved me from running to the basement or opening up IPMI a few times already when making suspect changes to a VM that otherwise would have taken down the network of my host.

ATM I’m running Proxmox with Nixos VMs running mixed docker/podman containers. It works out pretty well for my use case and with some opentofu fiddling I have most of my infrastructure defined in config files if that’s a rabbit hole you want to go down.

As for my experience with docker vs podman I have to say podman can pretty much do whatever docker does with the exception of docker swarm. You may have to do some digging to handle more advanced networking/gpu setups.

The only thing I have running docker atm is a gluetun container because container to container networking took more than 15m of research with podman so I fell back to the very well documented path using docker.

I use systemd-nspawn to absolutely pissoff everyone :)

Docket-compose is the easiest and most commonly used format imo

docker in a vm in proxmox!

no but really. I don't like that the vm host's kernel is shared with all the containers.
then maybe have 2 or 3 VMs, one of which hosts essential services (not like your nextcloud, but services that are necessary to make the (internal or whole home) network work like DNS and DHCP, maybe monitoring, and another that hosts your convenience services (jellyfin, nextcloud). the first is easier to fix if it breaks, the second is not the end if the world if it does. maybe also have a third for services that would be painful to have offline (nextcloud), but try to limit it to few tasks because the goal is simplicity. this setup can help with distro upgrade difficulties, and vm custom configuration issues when you have set up something that seems to work but will prevent VM startup sometime in the future.

podman could be a good idea too.

Proxmox is great. I run each service in its own lxc/vm. Many of the vms also run docker. Probably overkill, but backups and restores via Proxmox Backup Server are super easy when segregated this way

Both. Depends on what you want to achieve

Maybe use Docker with a UI like lazydocker or Portainer.

If you feel safe with Docker, perhaps experiment with Proxmox as a base. Then you can separate your environments into different VMs.