this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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How to say Marx was right without saying "Marx was right".

all 39 comments
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[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 103 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

Let's be clear about something; climate scientists almost universally agree that there is no such thing as "winning" or "losing" the fight against climate change (Suzuki, for the record, is a zoologist, not a climate scientist). This isn't a game, there's no referee, and no one gets a trophy at the end.

The battle against climate change is about mitigating harm. The worse we do, the more harm there will be. But there is never a point where it is "too late". The car is going to crash, but the sooner you hit the brakes, the less damaging the impact will be. Everything we do to push the needle will save lives. There is never a point where we get to throw up our hands and succumb to the comforting fantasy that it's "too late" to change anything.

I have a lot of respect for Suzuki, and I don't blame him for feeling defeated with everything that's happening, but spreading this kind of message is, dangerous, damaging, and flies entirely in the face of the science.

[–] yucandu@lemmy.world 20 points 5 hours ago

Back before George W Bush directed NASA to call it climate change, it was called global warming, and you can definitely win against that - by stopping the earth from warming. That's unwinnable due to feedback loops that have now begun.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Sort of? I don't think he mentioned tipping points anywhere in there, it was pretty non-specific and ranty, but if we've passed a tipping point it becomes less a matter of applying a brake and more of actively causing massive climate change in the other direction. Failing that, climate change will stop when it reaches a new balance and no sooner.

Nobody really knows where those tipping points are. The Paris thresholds were our expert's best guesses for a "safe" amount of warming.

[–] jafffacakelemmy@mander.xyz 1 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

In your car crash analogy, we are now past the point where hitting the brakes will help. The car will be irrepairably destroyed and all passengers will be killed.

[–] BagOfHeavyStones@piefed.social 2 points 2 hours ago

Just put ice in the airbags.

[–] HaiZhung@feddit.org 1 points 14 minutes ago* (last edited 14 minutes ago)

This is flat out wrong. In fact, the more co2 is emitted, the more extreme the consequences are. The change from 0->1 degree of global warming barely registers. The change from 3->4 degrees is catastrophical, for example.

Thus, the warmer it gets, the more worth it is to fight against it, as each small win contributes more to the bottom line than in the beginning.

[–] demerara@social.vivaldi.net 30 points 8 hours ago

@asg101 I agree we've lost the opportunity and will have to "hunker down". But hearing it from David Suzuki is...hard.

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 15 points 7 hours ago

Lol yup, trump also went all in on climate denial. Definitely fucked.

[–] WrathfulBirch@lemmy.cafe 14 points 7 hours ago (5 children)

I gave up a long time ago. The last time we really did anything about an issue like this was lead in gasoline. 50+ years of knowing we had to change. I wonder if maybe the wealthy elites know whats coming. I wonder if this new rise in facism is partially an answer to the fact that there won't be enough of anything to go around. That is why they want us having babies. for soliders. I hope they have some spark of humanity and let people self terminate but I bet you would need money for it.

[–] pedz@lemmy.ca 11 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Just wanted to add that maybe the last thing that we did for the environment and that really worked was for acid rain in 1991. At least where I live.

A few years before that there was the Montreal Protocol that banned CFCs and helped to heal the hole in the ozone layer. I think.

But yeah, I don't remember anything of the sort recently,

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 minutes ago

Where I live people are replacing furnaces with heat pumps, if enough do it could mace a minuscule effect.

[–] seaQueue@lemmy.world 7 points 6 hours ago

I'm pretty sure that's what the grab for Ukraine and Trump's stated intent to annex Greenland is about. Both of those have the potential to become food security sources after significant global heating. I'm also pretty sure that's why authoritarians are seizing control of govt (and by extension that govts security services) because there won't be enough to go around and they're going to need soldiers to keep the hungry people away from their billionaire breadbaskets.

[–] srecko@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 hours ago

What about ozone layer?

[–] CanadianCorhen@lemmy.ca 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Genuinely seen conspiracy theorists say "they removed lead paint to that they can control you with 5g"

If we still had lead gasoline, people would say you can pry it out of their cold dead hands

[–] jafffacakelemmy@mander.xyz 2 points 2 hours ago

We do still have leaded petrol. All piston engined aircraft are still burning fuel with added lead.

[–] match@pawb.social 2 points 1 hour ago

what possible reason could there be in self termination when there is a good fight to be fought (against the oppressors)

[–] CatherineLily@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 8 hours ago (5 children)

So, how long do we have left?

[–] asg101@lemmy.ca 33 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

No one knows, many humans and other species are already dying from climate change today. Get used to hearing the phrase "It is happening much faster than expected." from now on.

[–] CatherineLily@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Guess people better start updating their plans then. No point in starting a family and having kids when they'll just die to climate change.

[–] WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 5 points 3 hours ago

People are doing that. Fertility rates are way below replacement rates. Now billionaires are freaking out that their customer base and work force is shrinking.

[–] django@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 4 hours ago

I am way ahead of you.

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 hours ago

I'm curious if we will hit a correctional point when most of life dies off and civilization can restart. I'm picturing some fallout/metro kind of shit where people need to love underground for centuries.

[–] salacious_coaster@infosec.pub 8 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

"Collapse is a process, not an event." It's very likely we'll be extinct by the end of the century. There will be all manner of hell from now until then. Our population of over 8 billion is only possible because of a highly complex global web of systems. Complex systems are fragile. Once dominos start falling, people will start starving very quickly.

[–] scintilla@kbin.earth 15 points 7 hours ago

Its entirely possible that 99% of humanity dies but I don't really buy into us going extinct. People have an inate drive to survive and even if things are genuinely horrible I don't see them just giving up. Unless there is literally no food/potable water I think the planet is stuck with some form of humanity until the planet is uninhabitable. Remember there are still dinosaurs around today, they just look different.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

The typical Lemming will be poorer but fine, unless it triggers other human disasters like a nuclear exchange. The lower classes of Bangladesh, less so, and 95%+ of coral reefs are fucked.

[–] teppa@piefed.ca 0 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

This guy says climate change mitigation will be a blip on the radar of economic growth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfNamRmje-s

[–] danielquinn@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 hours ago

Hooooly shit, that man is a sociopath. It's no wonder we're barrelling into 5°C with people like him driving the world's economy.

He's done the classic trader thing:

  1. Classify everything based on its financial value
  2. Ignore the real-world implications of things that don't fit his models
  3. Take it as a given that markets will always behave the same way regardless of point 2.
[–] mintiefresh@piefed.social 9 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

🔥🔥 This is fine 🔥🔥

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago
[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 8 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Giving up is exactly where the "too late" come from, quitter shouldn't be leading climate advocacy.

[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago

I mean...the next steps involves lots of fire and death...so...that's not going to save the environment either but it will certainly send a message.

[–] mrodri89@lemmy.zip 6 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Yep, Trump just put all our climate mitigation funds into big oil. We’re cooked.

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 minutes ago

And Trunp is bringing back coal too. Fucked doesn’t even describe it.

[–] myrmidex@belgae.social 4 points 1 hour ago

the focus on politics, economics, and law are all destined to fail because they are based around humans. They’re designed to guide humans, but we’ve left out the foundation of our existence, which is nature, clean air, pure water, rich soil, food, and sunlight. That’s the foundation of the way we live and, when we construct legal, economic and political systems, they have to be built around protecting those very things, but they’re not.

Powerful truth!

[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 minutes ago

Canada (and the world) will burn. You think migrants are a problem now? Wait until millions of people have no choice but to go north and the water wars start.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 0 points 5 hours ago

Hunker down while growing the world's population!