we can't get more than what sanders wants if we can't even get what sanders wants
this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
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Surprisingly, It's sometimes easier to do big things.
For example: Do social security instead of tinkering around the edges of the existing retirement system.
So, would you then say "we can't get more than what Kamala wants if we can't even get what Kamala wants"?
No.
Yep, article is well meaning but dumb.
Idealism is great, but politics requires pragmatism. Which is why people like AOC and Bernie (who are well left of Kamala politically) still told voters to vote for Kamala in the election - she was the only way to avoid Trump, she was the pragmatic choice.
But apparently we'll be discussing why it's a dumb idea to be a protest voter in a very close election for the next four years non-stop.
No.
The Left needs to get rid of fucking Schumer.
Let Bernie retire, because the man was there for the signing of the declaration (pretty sure his signature is just below Adams's.)
Let the man retire. Get rido f the Quaislings that seem content to be ineffectual opposition.
Do stuff other than beg the base for money and give people somethign they can be involved in. Start looking at community efforts. Build ties at the base's own level so the base SEES the Democratic party Doing stuff locally that HELPS them.
The left needs to be rid of centrists like Bernie/AOC and bring in actual leftists. Not just progressives but communists, socialists, syndicalists, anarchists, revolutionary trade unionists, the class conscious workers who will lead the revolution. Compromise with the Capitalists is useless as they have no morals, they will always claw back everything they have compromised (Trump is proof of this). Furthermore working in the Capitalists liberal democracy is the best way to get absolutely nothing done and to fall to fascism.
WORKING PEOPLES OF THE WORLD UNITE
Your politicans will not save you nor will running one more electoral campaign, we need to build class consciousness and strengthen unions to prepare for revolution (it is not a if question but a when question)
I agree with a lot of this article, but it doesn't really acknowledge the reality of the Democratic leadership's obstruction. The party is, generously, a slightly left-of-center organization that prioritizes stifling their own left wing over defeating their far-right opponents. They've successfully held off two of Bernie's presidential runs, redistricted Bowman out of his seat, and Pelosi has spent so much time and effort undermining the squad (and AOC personally) that it borders on pathological.
I agree with a lot of the criticisms of Bernie in this article, and beyond that, he's just too old to be in the Senate, much less the standard bearer for the entire left, but the Democrats have spent decades making sure there's no viable alternative. We need to move past Bernie, but we need to build an actual progressive movement that can get past Democratic obstruction to do that, and for now, Bernie is still the de facto leader of that movement.
They're center right at best, they dont advocate for workers solidarity and actively distract workers from unity. They demand compromise with capitalists yet give the workers nothing. They are only left wing in social policy, on economics and governance they are fascism lite.
Well, there's a reason I said, "generously," slightly left-of-center. It also depends on the Democrat. There's enough of them that care about labor to get the PRO Act through the house, but not the Senate. I don't think it would be unfair to call someone like Gary Peters center-left, given his strong pro-union track record, but someone like Schumer or Pelosi, who are squarely on the side of Wall Street and big tech respectively, are just conservatives masquerading as left-leaning centrists.
Imo being left wing should at the absolute bare minimum require supporting the abolition of private property and ownership. Unions are fundamentally a compromise between labor and capital, therefore supporting unions is more centrist. An example of a left wing position would be supporting revolutionary workers syndicates.
I mean, fair enough, but there's no point in America history where abolishing private ownership wouldn't be considered far-left. I understand that compared to international standards or across the broader spectrum of political theory, the American left has never been particularly left-wing. When I say the Democrats are slightly center-left or center-right, I'm comparing them to themselves 30 to 40 years ago. Since 1980, they've slowly compromised their principles to the point where they can't be considered, "left," by any modern political metric.
If you asked a Appalachian coal miner in 1921 they would say that the abolition of private property is the absolute basic nessesity for any leftist movement
...OK, that still would have a far-left opinion in American politics. It's not like the country was divided between socialists and communists back then. Hell, it took the Great Depression just to get the moderate socialist reforms of the New Deal passed, and even then, its opponents thought it was communism.
Like, I don't know what to tell you. I understand your point; you think anything that doesn’t involve the abolition of private property isn't left-wing. But even pre-Cold War, even pre-McCarthyism, even during the Coal Wars, that position would be the far-left of American politics. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but when I, or the author of the article, or most Americans, are talking about, "the left," we're definitely not working from your definition.
Even on social policy they have to be coaxed into it by a large activist movement and they'll ditch it if the Republicans make too big a stink
Bernie should be running "here's how to run for office in your area" drives on his oligarchy tour. The only way progressives will kick out corporate democrats is by the common person running more. Bernie should be pushing more people to run instead of just getting up on a stage in front of people and being a politician. He's not a good organizer. Great talker. Horrible at getting people out to vote. Dude couldn't even get enough people out to vote in the Democrat primary in 2016 to defeat Clinton. She beat him by a larger voting margin than Trump won by last year.
Oh no, every fuckin person In line to vote with me just said they were voting for Clinton because they were told he couldn't win. Everyone agreed with him yet I couldn't convince the 20 people in line that if we all voted for him it could all work. The dnc did him wrong, the media coverage wasn't great (never is take that as it is), and people thought Clinton was a shoe-in. I dont disagree with your statement for teaching people how to run, but don't disregard how the dnc didn't want him there at all.
A new party is needed. Be done with the garbage that we currently have
Almost like some sort of grassroots 3rd party that is literally too radical of an idea for you fools in this community who argued Biden (and Harris) was somehow more leftist than Obama.
Yes, let's lose worse.
Without ranked choice voting, the only option is to fix it from within.
RCV is not something the two party system would willingly allow to occur in enough states to matter, and it's not a base requirement for a 3rd party to succeed.
Pakistan doesn't have RCV, it took them 20 years which included a 10 year military dictatorship and 10 years of faked paper ballots and miscounts. No way the US would need more than that considering we don't have massive issues involving voter fraud.
I'm sick of people disregarding 3rd party with what is essentially a flawed argument of the two party system used to convince people 3rd parties are impossible.
You would be surprised at the amount of increased turnout from the nonvoters group that would gain wins in an FPTP system despite the disadvantage.
this is basically saying, we are currently at -10, Sanders is at +3 and we need to jump to +10 right away. Not gonna happen unless through civil war.
Republicans were at -3 pre 2016 and they've ratcheting up to -10 pretty quickly. If you have a good charismatic leader that the base falls for you can drag the rest of the party along to the edges of the Overton window pretty quickly.
If you have a good charismatic leader that the base falls for
...the party's geriatric republican-lite leadership will ratfuck them out of the primaries.
Trash article.
Their foreign policy criticism of Bernie is that he told people to vote for Kamala, and she didn't do enough to stop the genocide in Gaza.
Like Jesus Christ, people like this are why the Democrats cant win.
She indicated that she would continue biden's unquestioning and unconditional support for netanyahu's genocide.
You can make your point without downplaying genocide support.
Oh please do go ahead and tell me how much Trump is doing to stop that.
Oh what's that? Nothing?
Are you saying that it was fucking obvious everyone should vote for and endorse Kamala?
Jesus fucking Christ, anyone who didn't support Kamala was dumb as fuck. Full stop. If your criticism of Bernie was that he supported the obvious lesser of two evils then maybe you deserve the president you got.
If your criticism of Bernie was that he supported the obvious lesser of two evils then maybe you deserve the president you got.
Where did I criticize Bernie?
And anyone who supports genocide is human garbage and will always deserve worse than they're currently getting. Regardless of how shitty what they're getting is, they deserve worse.
This literal entire comment chain is about how the article's foreign policy criticism of Bernie is that he endorsed Kamala, and she didn't do enough to stop the Palestinian genocide.
and she didn’t do enough to stop the Palestinian genocide.
The basically vowed to continue it. Sanders can see the lesser evil, but that's no reason to downplay the evil.
The sit out centrists need to vote
there wont be anyone like sanders or aoc,, and all other imitation dems turn out to be shills for the gop.
i.e. Fetterman.
When the party supported him instead of pulling funding, it should have been clear that he was lying about being a progressive.
there isn't, but there can be
Bernie is the only leftist in the Senate. So until that changes it will be impossible to move beyond him.
I think the language is funky. They're saying beyond, like take his ideas and go even further, not move away from Bernie. They want more and better of him.
Luigi, because Bernie was our compromise.
Reading the article, the argument is that Bernie isn't left enough, and more radical candidates need to be run in primaries.
We need a progressive takeover of the democratic party. The MAGAs tranformed the republican party in what 10 years?
If we have midterms it has to start then.
*The Koch Brothers et al. used their vast wealth to transform the Republican Party in 10 years.
The biggest problem the left faces is that money is required for any political action in the U.S., and there is no money for the left. No billionaire will fund 50501, or Our Revolution, and in fact they'll gladly spend several million dollars defeating leftist primary challengers and suppressing news of protests.
Our political system is hopelessly rigged. There is no longer any way to use it to save ourselves.
We have to organize at the community level and do it without all the shadowfunding the fascists have.
Probably won't happen. The DNC are conservatives and the majority of the US is too. Most ppl are too dumb/uninformed to see left leaning politics is what they actually want
Sanders works with democrats while voters paint democrats as evil. If you love Bernie then ask yourself why does he keep such company? Vilifying the dem party ain’t helping and your Bernie recognized that a long time ago. What are you accomplishing ?
Something needs to change either people pull their head out of their ass and cut this shit out, or they get better at shit and stop it. But wtf
Move left and we'll quit correctly pointing out that your party is shit on purpose.
Because that’s the only way he can even begin to accomplish any goals. What’s the alternative? Working with Republicans what the fuck? The only way anyone can accomplish something in a two party system is to try to work with one of the two parties. Do you think he would have any better success with the Republicans?
One of Bernie's biggest flaws is that he's working with the Democrats.
Centrists need to stop telling leftists what to do and what is good for them or they're going to keep on losing elections.
It's not coming from a centrist in this case: the article is written by someone who argues Bernie is insufficiently left.