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Zionism has been doing ethnic cleansing for over 76 years
Oh, so genocide is 'self defense.' No, fuck off with that Zionist bullshit
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Settlements and Occupation
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets 'Transferred' to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
Apartheid Evidence
Amnesty Report
Human Rights Watch Report
B'TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
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Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Historian Works on the History
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
Arab and Muslim welcomed jews many time like the ottoman accepted many jews following the expulsion of Jews from Spain in 1492. During the first Eliyah Arab businesses let jews from Yemen to work for them, Arabs and jews was also going to each other festivals. Things got bad when Zionists exposed the plan to force a state on local people
While it was wrong and a terrible idea, Arab countries kicking out jews from them countries was a response to Zionists mass displacing hundred thousands of people
When some politicians side with Nazis other sided with British and fought Nazi Germany
Israel occupied Gaza and the west bank in 67, Israel definitely started that war by the admission of the former prime minister Menachem Begin
https://blog.nli.org.il/en/hoi_yemenite_aliyah/#%3A%7E%3Atext=The+proximity+to+the+Old%2Cto+sing+Yemenite+wedding+songs
Don't colonize people and expect the colonized to not retaliate. It's the only solution to the conflict
to say that some politicians sided with the british/allies is to completely sweep under the rug how massively one sided arab support was, and honestly, remains to this day, in favor of the nazis.
you need go no further in your explanation, because that right there, shows me you are not debating in good faith.
I will add though, the Jews that were in the region prior to 1948, were there legally. They did not steal their land. It was obtained legally and not through forceful colonization. But there is a long ass history of violence and hate toward jews, well before 1948... and really long even before the 1900s. The jews had to pay a special tax just for being jewish in the ottoman empire. In 1937 the arabs were offered the clear majority of the region -- they rejected it because they simply did not want jews in the region. Period. They wanted all of the land. After that, they allied themselves with the nazis. In 1948 they were offered 45% of the land, and damn thats fucking generous considering they had just allied themselves with hitler.
And if there are any questions as to why the jews wanted their own state, look up stuff like the Hebron Massacre, or the Nebi Musa riots. In 1947 there were many instances of violence targeting jews. Violence toward jews was widespread and intense in the region. The war of independence was a reaction to this.
Jordan sided with the allies , Egypt sided with the allies ,Iraq sided with the allies expect a very short time where Rashid Ali al-Gaylani took control, all the Arab speaking countries except Libya sided with the allies. 12k to 19k Palestinians volunteered to fight the Nazis while there is no data about Palestinians soldiers siding with the axis.
Get your evil propaganda out of lemmy
https://archive.is/wxAG4
https://news.sky.com/story/memorial-to-be-built-for-muslim-soldiers-who-fought-and-died-alongside-uk-troops-in-world-wars-13123405
and Hajj Amin al-Husseini sided with hitler. The most prominant arab leader in mandatory palastine.
this comes off like people saying Gazans don't support hamas. Yet, when on oct 7 they paraded jewish hostages through the streets, huge numbers of civilians were shown cheering them on.
Still most leaders sided with the allies like i already mentioned you won't be able to deflect from this
Israel and Zionists committed dozens of 7 of October like events in the past like the Ibrahimi Mosque massacre . Israelis been saying death to Arabs every years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_to_Arabs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ARnepbehg
Go back to reddit. Your propaganda won't pass here
and to the mod who removed my post for misinfo, yeah this post
This is not misinfo. Your aljazeera source with hamas sourced numbers is the misinfo. really gotta stop sourcing numbers from the hamas run palistinian ministry of health. and yes, the palistinian central bureau of statistics sourced numbers from the ministry of health, says it right in the article.
my source for the ministry of health being unreliable: https://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/HJS-Questionable-Counting-%E2%80%93-Hamas-Report-web-v2.pdf
i get that you don’t like what i’m saying but i’m not the one ignoring facts here.
Hamas is not only its armed wing. It is the entire government in Gaza. Its numbers have historically been considered reliable by the United Nations, the World Health Organization, and Human Rights Watch. In relation to the Gaza war, two letters published in The Lancet journal did not find evidence of inflation or fabrication of Palestinian casualty numbers. There is no reason to cast doubt on their estimates than to deny that Israel is committing a genocide.
This is your source?? A fucking British soldier that has made a living occupying Ireland and running around shooting at Arabs????? Writing at the behest of a right wing think tank??????????
The rest of this is racist Zionist slop that I shouldn't even justify with a response, because even if it was a completely honest portrayal it would not justify genocide, but to start; Palestinians cannot be held responsible for actions that other arab nations took after 1948 (in response to the horrific acts committed during the nakba, but that nonetheless does not justify it) or the antisemitism that was in large part purposefully fomented in those nations by Israel to advance the Zionist mission. The intention of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine has been made clear since Zionism first emerged in the late 19th century. The mass transfer of Jews to historic palestine and the ensuing displacement of Palestinians started before even 1933, which is when the Haavara agreement was signed between Nazis and Zionist collaborators. It has never been about "self defense" and that is a fucking shameful way to justify the violent expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their home land.
Back at you.
Get the fuck out of here you disgusting fucking Zionist.
the bias is strong with this one.
Yes, I am proudly biased against groups that commit genocide before our eyes and deny it, dispossess indigenous peoples of their ancestral homes and turn them into refugees in foreign lands, along with fascist ideologies which call for the establishment and maintenance of an ethnostate and sheepishly justify Nazi collaboration and ethnic cleansing as a means to that end. Stay as mad at that as you like and have the day you deserve.
So no better than Hamas, or Nazis, or the Taliban, or any other organisation that uses violence as a means of political expression.
Wtf? Stop comparing the violence of Colonialism to the anti-colonial violence that exists only as a resistance to that occupation and Colonialism.
The violence of the anti-colonialism is done as a last resort to resist the unimaginable amount of violence the occupiers do on a daily fucking basis.
How fucking gross to compare Hamas, which only exists because of the Israeli Apartheid, with the fucking Nazis. While Israel is litterally doing a fucking genocide in Gaza as we speak, and has been for over 18 fucking months. Not to mention the blockade and 'mowing the lawn' which are some of the most brutal aspects of the apartheid that's been happening in the occupied territories since 1967.
JFC, what your doing is akin to both-sidesing the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Have a shred of humanity. Anti-colonialist doesn't come out of fucking nowhere and is completely fucking different than the fascism of Colonialism.
Hamas exists as it is today because it has been sponsored by Israel, while other, non religious extremist Palestinian parties/organisations were sabotaged by Israël. It was a clear choice to have an agressive and unreasonable opponent rather than a diplomatic partner that could be worked with towards a peaceful solution. Hamas is very much a creature of the Zionist Israeli politicians and has consistently worked against the interest of the Palestinian population to give Israel excuses to do what they do. Hamas is not worthy of your support, the Palestinian population who is caught up between all this, very much is.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20151019-palestine-through-the-lens-of-frantz-fanon/
I'm well aware that Israel has propped up Hamas for their own ends. It was both to divide the leadership between the West Bank and Gaza and justify it's violence against a civilian population in the eyes of Western Nations as 'fighting terrorism,' which works due to the decades of Islamphobia and hasbara in Western Nations. That does not change the dynamic, whoever funds hamas does not change what their decisions or aims are. It's not sabotage, it's blowback.
Hamas is not controlled under Israel, unlike the PA. Who's police force works at the behest of Israel as an arm of the occupation, cracking down on resistance against any violent settler colonialism taking place.
Hamas on the other hand, is a legitimate resistance group against a colonial occupying force that has been committing genocide for over a year, and a brutal blockade and occupation for generations. The goals of Hamas is to end the occupation, now genocide, and for liberation against Zionism. I certainly don't agree with all the violent actions Hamas has taken, but I also don't live in Gaza. The median age is 18, compared to 30 is Israel or 40 in European countries, all with experience living under Israeli violence.
Hamas is one of the many Palestinian resistance organizations that has existed under Zionist colonialism, and currently the most prominent. I support Palestinian resistance unconditionally, regardless of what form that takes.
I understand that you feel that way. Israel has managed to make an unpalatable group the face of Palestine resistance. Frankly both Hamas and the Isreali government are complicit in the genocide. You are led to believe that if one side is evil the other must by default be good. In this case I only see a master and a puppet. The october 7 attacks were exactly what and when Netanyahu wanted. Hamas was groomed by Israel to shape as many Palestinians as possible into the kind of people that other nations fear and contributed with their own senseless violence to radicalize the survivors against them. Israel managed to paralyze the international community into inaction with telling them they are antisemites if they condemn their crimes. But those words ring more hollow every day. In an ideal world everyone responsible would be arrested and tried Neurenberg style. But apparently we're all too afraid.
One side is the agressor killing for no reason the other is the oppressed attacking due to desperation. They will never be equal
They are not equal one is a tool of the other. I miss when we had Arafat and Rabin and hope.
The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six-Day War. We will not return to the 4 June 1967 lines. - Yitzhak Rabin
During the peace process he didn't stop illegal settlements The "solution" wasn't going to happen when he refused to bring back all land minus Israel to Palestinians.
What is the point of nostalgia anyway . Both Arafat and Rabin are dead. None of israeli parties are pro decolonization
The only tool is the Palestinian authority with on ground facts. If we determine who is the tool by the number of people dying due to the occupier aggression than all resistance group in past occupied people was all tools
No a lot of the old resistance weren't tools, but they (Israël) have learned from that. So they have cultivated resistance that is shaped to look like the kind of thing the West fears (wether you call it Islamophobia or not, it works) . Secular, leftist groups easily got sympaty abroad while religiously inspired fanatics get easily classified with groups like ISIS or Boko Haram. And I'm not saying they are like thise groups just that they have properties that allow people to classify them in the same range, and that is by Israeli design.
If you want help in your war, get an enemy that other people don't like as well. Make them strong enough that they can really hurt, but not strong enough that they have a chance of winning and let them attack civilians and minor military targets but never the real policy makers. That is absolutely what Israel has done.
Violence in terrorism in resistance group has zero influence on how the west was backed
The western media don't talk about the colonization when there is no hamas attacks. Most of the western west pro palestinians also only wake up when palestinian resistance escalate
The plo and fatah was always secular groups they was labeled as terrorist groups because they did armed resistance and of course with some terrorism operation
Without resistance groups regardless of if it is violent or not, israel would still maintain the occupation , settlers would keep harrasing palestinian and the west would be totally silent
This is the dangerous status quo that you don't realize that your logic imply
Oh so you are assigning blame for this genocide to Hamas. Insane. You're saying Hamas' actions justify or are responsible for Israel's response of literal genocide. No, nothing justifies genocide. You can't expect a civilian population subjected to the unfathomable daily violence of settler colonialist apartheid to not fight back. Fuck off with that shitty hasbara. This is as ridiculous as both-sides-ing the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.
If an ethnosupremacist Apartheid state that has continued to live-stream genocide for well over a year is evil, yeah, resistance against that apartheid and genocide is good. In fact, it's just and moral.
You already have the position that Israel's response is expected due to the actions of Hamas. If an apartheid state's inevitable response to resistance against that apartheid is genocide, then yes, that state deserves to be dissolved and the occupied, and especially victims of a genocide, have a right to resist and armed struggle.
No, again that is the Palestinian Authority (PA), which is a case of Counter Insurgency (COIN).
Because he a fucking genocidal Zionist who knows western counties, in particular the US, will give them unlimited material support, international support, and propaganda support for Israel's genocide. Became Zionism is not about the security of Jewish people or even of Israeli's. It's about the extermination of Palestinians, Palestine, and even beyond with Greater Israel.
Wtf? This take is fucking ridiculous. Islamphobia in the west is not the fault of Palestinians, nor Arabs or Muslims in general. Islamphobia is deliberate to justify the unfathomable amount of violence they have subjected the population of the Middle East to. It is state policy and used to dehumanize the victims of Western Chauvinism.
What makes Palestinians the 'kind of people that other nations fear,' exactly? Because by any metric of violence Israel has been far worse both before and after any violent act of resistance by Palestinians. Nor have Palestinians been the one preventing a peace resolution.
'their own senseless violence to radicalize the survivors against them.' You mean the survivors of terrorist attacks against Israel? The party responsible for this violent occupation in the first place? Without which these terrorist attacks wouldn't have happened in the first place? The sense is resistance. Unlike for Zionism, who's many magnitudes more terrorism they subject the Palestinian population to, the sense is to ethnically cleanse the inferior natives.
No. Western nations have supported Zionism, a fascist project, since it's beginning. Zionism weaponizes antisemitism. These countries weren't 'paralyzed.' They've supported the setter colonialism for many decades. They even continue to support the genocide by continuing the provide weapons, do business with, and refuse to sanction a state committing genocide, on top of the violent settlements and ethnic cleansing done for over 76 years. There are much more Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists. They are not 'paralyzed by the a (false) accusation of antisemitism.' Their interests are ideological and financial.
Yes I assign blame to Hamas because they're the puppet that gives a tiny bit of legitimacy to the horrors Israel is commiting in the eyes of the West.
This does not in any way reduce Israel's responsibility in this at all quite the contrary. The fact that they use Hamas, and Hamas uses the Palestinian population in this way makes it much and much worse. If Hamas were a legitimate resistance they would go after leaders, real strategic targets and such not the attacks that are designed to cause outrage but have no value in advancing their supposed cause.
The only difference between us is that you fall wholeheartedly for the lie that is Hamas. You differentiate them from the PA, but they are one.
They are a legitimate resistance regardless of whether they meet your own imagined standard of what legitimate resistance is. Hamas is not being 'used' by Israel, for the same reasons the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising wasn't 'used' by Nazi Germany. Read Franz Fanon if you want to understand the reality of anti-colonial resistance. All you're doing is carrying water for Zionism, whether you recognize that or not.
That last sentence describes you perfectly. Damn it's sad.
And what have they done to defend the people being genocided? Nothing at all. They're like the kid who kicks the school bully from behind and runs, leaving only you for the bully to see when he turns around.
1- Messing up the abraham accord that was trying to isolate palestians even more. 2 - Revive the world population attention to the 57 years occupation. 3 - More countries recognizing the palestinian state 4 - Hamas having direct access to the occupation forces to kill the terrorist soldiers
Occupation forces will always kill civilians they are the only side responsible for everything including attrocities like the 7 of october.
It would be cool if we could just say israel stop occupation and they stop but that's never the reality. By stripping the right of armed resiatance you simply defend occupation which is the ultimate terrorist act
I don't propose stripping the right of armed resistance.
Every single armed group in Palestinian is in terrorism list . Hamas is still the strongest group . We should condemn Hamas when it target civilians and praise them when they attack the occupying force
Yes, indeed.
It wasn't sponsored by israel, israel only allowed qatari money to go to gaza. Israel always had full control of money flow. The money goes to the palestinian autority also is approved by israel. Hell even humanitarian aid can only enter of Israel accepted. But you won't critisize PA because they are collaborating with the occupation and does nothing against the settlers armed by the terrorist state of israel
It was very much sponsored by Israel. You may not want to see it but that is a you problem. It's pretty well documenten. The PA is also no more than a tool for Israël, and just as complicit in the whole thing.
Let's say PA and Hamas are both Israeli tools so who is the real resistance to Israel?
I don't know if there is significant real resistance as Hamas will happily target rival groups. Besides it's oppressive government 101 that since there will be resistance, you (the government) organize it yourself, so you know and control who's in it. A smart oppressive government doesn't leave that to chance, and whatever else the Israeli government is, they are not stupid.
It is totally absurd that there is no significant real resistance . Occupied land always have real resistance.
The party who took power when my country tunisia and was part of the resistance was oppresing rivals it doesn't mean that they didn't care about the country. Same Hamas oppresion to palestinians who critisize it do not prove they are not resistance
Hamas are colaborating with other resistance groups , they wouldn't do that if they really want to crush them. The violence between the plo and hamas was both sided. The west and israel want you to believe that it was only hamas responsability
Who started the war on October 7th? Hamas the terrorists, and now the Israeli terrorist government is acting even more atrociously. There is no difference between them, they're both violent despotic parties.
No one, the war didn't start on October 7th it started more than 50 years ago.
The existence of Hamas, and any armed resistance movement, is directly due to the decades of violence experienced daily under the permanent occupation, the Apartheid State, of Israel. It's impossible to understand their existence if you don't understand the lived experience and material conditions they are forced to live under. There is no such thing as a perfect victim when it comes to anti-Colonialist resistance, not for the Vietcong, the IRA, or the ANC either. Can you condemn the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the same way as the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto?
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
Adi Callai has also done a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history, as well as an analysis of Franz Fanon and Identity Politics in the context of Colonialism and Anti-colonialism.
Who came from europe to force a state on local population? Who mass diplaced hundred of thousands of paleatinian? Who occupied who?
Would you say the british empire and indian resistance was equally bad when nana sahib promised safety to british soldiers and civilians and ended up massacring them?