this post was submitted on 24 May 2025
609 points (94.6% liked)

Political Memes

8106 readers
2341 users here now

Welcome to politcal memes!

These are our rules:

Be civilJokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.

No misinformationDon’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.

Posts should be memesRandom pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.

No bots, spam or self-promotionFollow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.

No AI generated content.Content posted must not be created by AI with the intent to mimic the style of existing images

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 18 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Anti-Conservative

There is no such thing as liberalism — or progressivism, etc.

There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation.

There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely.

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:

There must be in-groups whom the law protectes but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.

For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.

As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.

So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.

Then the appearance arises that the task is to map “liberalism”, or “progressivism”, or “socialism”, or whatever-the-fuck-kind-of-stupid-noise-ism, onto the core proposition of anti-conservatism.

No, it a’n’t. The task is to throw all those things on the exact same burn pile as the collected works of all the apologists for conservatism, and start fresh. The core proposition of anti-conservatism requires no supplementation and no exegesis. It is as sufficient as it is necessary. What you see is what you get:

The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.

Also, those who insist on political purity tests reveal themselves to be temporarily-inconvenienced-dictators-in-waiting.

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

While I am totally in the "bind all and protect all" camp and really against the "in group protect, out group rules" and I think conservatism is often in practice "protect me and rule others", I am not sure if I agree with it being called conservatism.

I think fundamentally the hierarchy in right wing politics imply an in/out group. But just like conservatism is a form of right wing political views, so you could argue that the hierarchical political views are a Form of "in group protect, out group bind".

Whatever you want to call it, is part of conservatism, I believe. But I don't like to call it conservatism, so it feels like we are defining two related but different things with the same name, which will be confusing and could be used by e.g. "progressive" capitalists to claim that they aren't conservative and therefore not "in group protect, out group bind".

[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

I am not sure if I agree with it being called conservatism.

Yes, Wilhoit, if I'm understanding his treatise correctly, addressed this point:

For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.

The corollary label could be "Anti-Establishment". Perhaps, "Anti-Authoritarian".

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know what the best term is, but I fairly certain conservatism is probably one of the worst. I think tribalism and anti-tribalism would be a better starting point while that was a meaning already too.

[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I think tribalism and anti-tribalism would be a better starting point while that was a meaning already too.

On this, I agree.

However, I propose that the "Anti-Conservative" label, with all of its flaws, has more utility in presenting its economic and political implications within the admittedly linguistically absurd political discourse in my country (U.S.A.).

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I think, there, we have a disagreement. To me, it would sound like you reject the republicans specifically in a us political discussion, a position that I wouldn't be interested exploring, because of how strong the tribalism in us politics is. I would just assume that you are supporting the democrats. While with the understanding of the conversation, I would assume you aren't supportive of any of the us political party and vote for the least bad option.

In other words, I wouldn't want to explore your political position if you use that term as I would assume I understood. Consequently I would misunderstand your position. And I think others would do the same.

If someone would identify as a conservative, they wouldn't take you seriously anymore, as they would understand it that you reject them, even tho in practice they would agree with you on a lot of stuff and you aren't necessarily rejecting them.

[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

😅 My apologies, I've been re-reading this reply many times and I'm not following your argument against the utility of using the "Anti-Conservative" label for myself if someone asks what is my political position (within the United States)?

Is your thesis that "Anti-conservative" is not specific enough?

[–] Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 4 hours ago

My apologies!

For a conservative™ (the way most people use the word), hearing "anti-conservative", probably makes them reject you immediately as from their pov, you reject them.

For a left wing person, hearing "anti-conservative" probably makes them assume that you talk about conservative™ and not conservative as you mean it.

So in both cases, you don't have the conversation that you want if you want to promote your political stance, as you kinda encourage them to not engage with your political stance.

[–] BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Also, those who insist on political purity tests reveal themselves to be temporarily-inconvenienced-dictators-in-waiting.

I hope this isn't about leftists refusing to support biden/kamala in the US.

[–] TronBronson@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

You didn’t have to support them. You just had to use your brain and choose the lesser of two evils. Like which one of these people is more likely to illegally deport me for exercising my first amendment rights? I think you’ll find the answer to that question soon.

[–] irmoz@lemmy.world 0 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Or maybe support someone who isn't one of the two evils

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 hours ago

I keep doing this hoping the centrists will get the message and enact PR or else risk losing to the Big Bad which threatens us all. But so far I've been disappointed...

I only have my one measly little vote. They determine the entire platform and what policies get proposed. It's so unfair. I just want to vote for the representative who actually represents me without risking fucking feudalism. I'm not even asking for direct democracy here…

[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Our (U.S.A.) best option for that in recent history was Bernie Sanders in the 2016 election.

[–] irmoz@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Thats still one of the two parties

Bernie is certainly a diamond in the rough - but don't ignore that rough.

[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

He is an independent as a Senator. But you're correct in that he ran as a Democrat in 2016.

[–] BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net -1 points 6 hours ago

Here you are protecting conservatives that have a vested interest in the genocide of palestinians.