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cross-posted from: https://quokk.au/post/5420798
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Israeli officials have signaled they do not intend to relinquish this territory. These areas, where the military has deployed, are considered “no-go zones” and Palestinians risk being shot if they approach.
I'm so happy people didn't vote for Kamala.
/s
I'm so fucking tired of this argument
It's not even an argument anymore it's a circlejerk.
Get used to it. I will repeat it until democrats realizes that not voting has consequences.
Maybe you should spend your effort getting the Democrats to realize that running awful candidates like Kamala is why they keep losing. I'd love to be able to side the Democrats, but they keep putting forward bad candidates with terrible platforms.
I would like to see the voters challenge the Democratic candidates with a simple: do you want to win or do you want to support Israel? You only get one.
It would be interesting to see the Democratic candidates faced with this and watch how they respond.
Really though, the party needs to be replaced. It is an abject failure.
"I couldn't vote against Hitler because the opposition wasn't great"
"we ran slightly less Hitler against Hitler and lost, it's everyone's fault except our own"
"slightly" 🤣🤣
I feel like "lets keep bombing children", or "we're going to back a genocide harder than they are", or "we're going to do a better job of putting immigrants in prison" is indeed only slightly better than the Republicans position.
collapsed inline media
https://youtu.be/EdZRhgluRkU
Just admit you don't actually care about Palestinian lives.
And you'll keep hearing it for actually assisting the fasist pro-genocide candidate.
And 6 months ago, you were arguing that we have to keep arming Israel because they're such an important ally to the US. Why aren't you saying that anymore?
I'm happy she lost, but I'm also sad that Trump won. Why should our choice be between to pro-genocide candidates?
Maybe the next time the Dems should try something new and run a candidate that campaigns on what the voters want.
One of those two was going to win. That's how this shit works, so instead of voting for genocide, you voted for genocide and for your list of rights to get shorter on a monthly basis. The worst part was that you saw all the signs and you still did it and are willing to brag that you're partially responsible for not making the obviously better call.
We can do third party's over 1/3 of the government when we have third partys everywhere else and it's actually attainable, until then, you're doing this.
You can't have genocide without your list of rights getting shorter on a monthly basis that's not how that works. It was always a question of when America's tab would come back to haunt it, not if. You want to keep your rights? Then better oppose genocide even when it's your guy doing it.
Hit the fucking nail on the head. Some actual intelligence in this comment thread.
Yeah, that is how it works. I don't fight against genocide because I think I'm going to win, I fight against genocide because I think it's evil. You may be OK with genocide, but I'm not.
Additionally, genocide is just 1 out of ~50 other things that I'm against, that Harris stood for. Why should I vote for a candidate that's proud to stand with the Cheneys? Or a candidate that wants to continue to be a "leathal fighting force"? Why should I vote for a candidate that thought bombing children was OK? Or a candidate that proudly stood behind a rapist?
Yes, I proudly stand against genocide, and all of those other things. Maybe the real issue is that the Democrats shouldn't run in favor of them.
No one here is rooting for genocide, I'm stating the obvious that you should make the best of a shitty situation rather than not. A great example of this is voting someone who stood behind a rapist instead of voting for someone that would lead to an actual rapist being the winner of the race. It's not good, but it's better.
By all means, try to vote both of these motherfuckers out when possible in primaries and midterms and special elections, but when it comes down to actual election day, and you only have two available options, you pick the best of the two instead of throwing your vote away, that is if you want to actually mitigate this shit storm as best you can instead of letting idealogical purity fuck you over even more.
Literally the Democratic leadership is. They're even doing more: they are funding it.
I agree it's better, but it's still not good enough for me to vote for. I understand why people held their nose and voted for Harris, but I was unwilling to do the same. We have different standards. I've seen the Democrats continuously fight against the policies that I want, and so I chose 'nah' over them. So did a lot of other people, so maybe they should incorporate that into their strategy next time.
I find this hilarious coming in support of a party who chose the ideological purity of genocide and money, instead of chosing a popular stance and winning the election.
I hope that you enjoy your moral superiority as you're rounded up by trumps gestapo.
I hope you enjoy your endorsement of genocide as you're rounded up by trumps gestapo.
I voted against the fascist, thank you very much.
Apparently, that was too hard for you.
Incorrect! I too, voted against the fascist. But I also voted against genocide, which was apparently too hard for you.
Oh look it’s another new account harshly critical of Democrats, but no comment on the atrocious Republican leadership.
🌻🌻🌻
Oh look it's another account that doesn't read things that I've written, then accuses me of stuff. I've already mentioned how terrible the Republicans and Trump are, and that I think the Democrats would have been better.
So what I'm not understanding about this is that you seem to have known that, did you also know that whoever you voted for would not win, and if you did, why did you do that?
I voted against both of the two major parties because both the Democrats and the Republicans fight against what I want. They both are pro-genocide, pro-corporation, pro-war, etc. While I don't think they are the same, both parties are pretty evil.
If the Republicans are a 2, the Democrats are a 3 at best. I'm looking for a 9 or a 10, and I'll vote against both of the parties until one of them stop fighting against what I want, and start fighting for what I want.
I chose to vote 3rd party, knowing that they wouldn't win, because I'd rather my vote be a vote against the both of them, than an endorsement of either one.
EDIT: I appreciate an honest question, trying to understand my point of view. These discussions tend to get a bit crazy, with a lot of baseless accusations and ad-hominem arguements. Thanks for taking it seriously!
I really am dude or dudette. Some people are just out here to be shitters, but I promise you, I'm really just trying to talk to you, whether I'm right or we're both wrong.
To be 100% frank, after this shit show, I'm not voting for them again.
I guess I'm just trying to voice my perspective on what I think to be true. I truly believed that that was the last stop before the beginning of true fascism, and to be fair, we're diving right in. The very fact that they didn't even hold the line is my wake up call. I won't vote for them again, I truly think that election we were not ready to stray, but after the last few months seeing them not do a godamn thing, I and most of us are right there with you. What I've said is not me telling you to stay with the status quo, it is just me saying at the time, November 5th, that was the best we could've done in my opinion.
My big grievance is that they had such an insanely easy competition, why couldn't they do the bare minimum? Like I've been saying, it is better, but I'll agree it's a 3 instead of a 2. My big thing is I'll take a fucking 3 if it's ONLY a 2 or 3.
I'd say it's more like a 4 over a 7, but still, the people have been asking for a fucking 9 to please treat us like people for a long time, and I'm just tired.
I sincerely hope that WE, very important we, can come together and help put together a party that just respects people over money. What it really boils down to is, am I being destructive? I really hope not, and I want that for everyone.
Yeah, that's a totally fair perspective. I gave up on the Democratic party a long time ago, partly because their current lack of fight is exactly what I expect from them. I totally understand why people voted for Harris, but I disagree with their strategy. I feel like continuing to support the Democrats is like digging yourself out of a hole: No matter how much you dig, you're still stuck in the hole.
I see Trump as a symptom of something bigger. Yes, I'm angry that he won, but I'm more angry at the ecosystem allows him to stay electable. And I think the Democrats are a large part of why that ecosystem is the way it is. Instead of cleaning things up, and fighting for their voter-base, they chose to build the systems that Trump is using. There's an old saying: Democrats clean and load the gun, Republicans shoot it.
I desperately want the Democrats to be a party I believe in. But I after years of seeing them in action, I'm convinced that abandoning them is the right call. And I know I'm not alone. Look at how many people gave up on the Dems at the election, and how low their polling is right now. I think all of that abandonment is well deserved.
Some people want to try and fix the broken party, and I think that's fine, I have no problem with them trying. But I think a third party is a better use of our time.
I agree that the most ideal thing would be a third party that actually has a secondary impact on the democratic party and forces them to actually run on what the people want vs being slightly less shitty.
So if both pro genocide why bringing the topic in discussion about "Israel commiting genocide"
So I've met quite a few people that can read, but I don't remember any of us saying that. I'd like to invite you to show me where that happened.
I agree wholeheartedly.
What limits?
None. There are no limits.
The lie that democrats would do anything to challenge zionist occupation is just that, a lie.
We wouldn't be fighting with Canada, Greenland, Mexico, Europe, etc.
Immigrants wouldn't be sent to a torture prison for simply disagreeing with Israel.
US universities wouldn't be under attack for "dei" and "antisemitism"
Judges wouldn't have been arrested for not allowing ice arrests in court chambers.
Tariffs wouldn't be destroying the economy.
Doge wouldn't be unconditionally gutting the federal government.
Did you think there was only a single issue you were voting for?
That's literally not what the other person said though. They said there were "limits" to Democrat support for Israel.
Yeah, you all only give a shit about exactly one thing. We know. Let everything else burn because you have a one track mind.
Frankly we didn't get the chance to know what limits Kamala would have had. But we do know that behind the scenes Biden was trying, albeit unsuccessfully, to moderate Israel. Kamala would likely have at least applied some pressure as well.
Trump wants to turn Gaza into a trump hotel.
You at least had some fucking hope with Kamala.
Actually, we know that Biden wasn't trying. They just came out and admitted that. And we didn't have any hope with Kamala, because she was clearly explicit that she was going to continue to support Israel.
Again that is literally not the conversation we're having right now. The other person made a concrete claim and I was challenging that concrete claim; neither of us said anything about the merits or demerits of voting for Harris so there's no reason for you to soapbox about the damn lefties drawing the line at genocide.
Hmm, all that stuff on the line, and the DNC decided that it was more important to protect Israel and idolize Dick Cheney than to defeat Donald Trump.
Don't worry though, the Democrats are working hard to ensure that Trump's policies face little to no opposition and they even unanimously voted recently to enact an internet censorship bill that Trump stated he would use to silence his online critics, so at least we can find comfort in knowing that they're finding so much common ground with Republicans.
I love how liberals pretend like it's not their fault for not voting.
I love how Democrats pretend it's not their fault for running terrible candidates with awful policies, that people don't want to vote for.