NRA been quiet right
this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2025
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The question is how often are they not used and kids die in fires?
Same question is, how often are kids killed by the police?
Idk but i don't think fires are all that common, and we have plenty of other mechanisms to prevent fires from even happening.
OTOH, guns being stored incorrectly is for sure far higher than any fire death you are trying to make equivalent.
I am not strawmanning you here, but i am calling you out for being disingenuous. Like I said:
Please don't do backflips to justify irresponsible gun owners. That is disgusting.
The strawman is that you assume children would ever be in their home. If the guns are behind locked doors away from children, they're secured.
Why would that be a wrong assumption? I am not sure what you are getting at here.
Not everyone who has guns has kids, and not everyone who has kids, allows their kids to access their firearms. That's part of being responsible.
Now you are being silly and pedantic.
The answer to that is because that is where they live. Are you not in your home most of the time? If you some how are not you are a statistical outlier and not relevant to the conversation.
To be clear, that is the kind of disgusting justifications for poor gun ownership and disingenuous takes i was calling out earlier in the thread.
Why are you assuming that a kid has access to a firearm if it's locked behind a door?
I mean I know what you're going for here, kids find parents gun and shoot someone or shoot themselves. That's just being a shit parent. Kinda like the kid getting your keys and crashing your car. Or finding the matches and burning down the house. There is a level of personal responsibility that is required to have kids and be an adult. There is also a level of "stupid people are going to do stupid shit" that we must accept for the personal freedom we are granted. Let's not suggest that we should curtail our freedoms because stupid people exist. We can't play nanny to everyone.
Classic libertarian move to be disingenuous and walk away with the wrong point to justify bad behavior. Come back when you are mature and ready to leave the bad faith takes behind.
Classic bullshit answer, I'm very very far from a libertarian. Read my other posts, about how to properly address our gun violence in this country. It has everything to do with societal benefits and making sure our populous is taken care of. Smoking has tanked because of education, not because of a prohibition style policy. Prohibition of pretty much anything just creates more black markets and people who want to try it. How has the war on drugs been going? I'm sure you'll agree it's be a complete failure.
Yeah, it has.
I agree.
Look I'm from Tx and have family out in corn field #12675AE2 whatever midwest. I can count the number of responsible gun owners with one hand. So I am calling out what is reading to me like BS NRA talking points to excess irresponsible people. I started the chain with empathy as to the point that was being made. And I keep reading you doubling down on whataboutisms. "What if no kid lives there" (as if that is the only misuse of guns), "why do you assume they are not stored correctly" (as if didn't start with leaving guns lying around for easy access).
If you are who you say you are; why do you die on this hill?
Because I have a very multinational family, and part of it was the ones who had no means to fight against fascist during WWII. I'm lucky to have been born from the level of death the Nazis placed upon one side of my family. The other side of me is native American. So if you can imagine, two people's who have been killed because they lacked the tools to fight back.
Registration is something that just places the vulnerable in the crosshairs of the oppressive.
Firearms are a force multiplier, are they dangerous? Yes. But so is a bunch of other shit. Swimming pools have more accidental deaths for kids than firearms, yet we are ok with this because it's part of being in a society that understands a balance.
I think I made my case on why I felt the way I did, and why I felt you are being disingenuous.
https://www.kff.org/mental-health/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/
There are stats that show that guns kill more children in the US than anything else (and it is a US only problem). I simply made a criticism at irresponsible gun owners and you keep trying to die on the hill to justify them. I drive a car and I am not going to make a cause to keep drunk drivers. And that is also part of the risk balance.
Recall that I did start with empathy for the position of owning guns, but drew a line at those who abuse those rights. And I did call you out for doubling down on missing the point on purpose. I think you owe me a bit of an apology.
That study was done during covid. It's no longer true and is motor vehicles again. That also includes suicides which are 2/3rds of our firearm deaths. The # of kids who find their parents gun and accidentally shoot themselves is miniscule. Like it or not, restricting firearm access because of a few accidents is not a good enough reason. Period.
You might be against drunk driving, but you'd take pause if everyone who purchased alcohol had to drink it in designated places so they could be monitored.
You're definition of a few needs updating. And its an L take to defend the irresponsible. Again I cancoundt the responsible ones I know with one hand. I am being reasonable in my judgements here.
Everyone I know that says "I need my guns at easy access" is a libertarian trying to justify leaving their loaded guns lying around anywhere.
Your position is incredibly ridiculous. One thing is self defense. Another isjustify mediocrity. Please take some self inventory about what you're saying.
Again, more kids die from drownings in pools than accidentally shooting themselves. And its a order of magnitude more yearly.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/health/children-accidental-shootings/index.html
In a 10 year period 279 and that's between ages 1 and 14.
Pool drownings, on average every year...358 children drowned...
https://www.poolsafely.gov/2024/07/11/new-data-shows-child-drownings-remain-high/#%3A%7E%3Atext=Parents+and+caregivers+can+follow%2Cthe+ER+annually+each+year.
Everyone I know who doesn't understand statistics makes wild shit up to support their nanny state bullshit.
Says the person who is wanting to put in place draconian laws that will do way more harm than good.
Why don't you stick to fixing the pool problem first if protecting the children is the ultimate goal. After all 358 die annually to drowning in pools vs around 27 a year to firearms....or is that because firearms don't have a purpose and need to be curtailed?
See you are being disingenuous and bad faith here. As if kids are the only drowning.
Quote them pls.
Do road ragers who brandish guns deserve them too? You are defending them as well. I've been threaten with fire arms over parking spaces. You really trying to tell me irresponsible gun owners are a minor inconvenient?
Crazy. The way I see it you are the one not understanding stats in their broader context to justify mediocrity and bad behavior. And in the above thread I've pointed out why I think you are a bad faith libertarian.
Also from your own link:
Which is what I've been saying. I rest my case. Please be mature about the issues.
Really? You shouldn't have to put in much effort to realize that not every adult has children or has family with children.
I bold something there for you. Also I get you are prob some libertarian from the midwest, but please dont take some statistical anomaly and make a generalization. Besides if you are from the midwest you know that people without kids and gun often drink in combination. Are you going to argue that that is responsible gun ownership too?
I am being reasonable here. Please to ruin lemmy with bad faith takes.
Is English not your first language? 'Their' in that context refers to the person you were replying to: SupraMario.
And as far as Midwesterners and more specifically my political beliefs; while we Minnesotans have a proud tradition of independence, we're not all Jesse Ventura. Our most popular party is the DFL, which is somewhat distinct from the national Democrat party, and we've supported (D) presidential candidates more than any other state. I'm more in the camp of 'If you go far enough left you get the guns back'. Every gun club I've been a member of has had strong membership support of safe handling and storage, but what that looks like differs based on multiple factors such as whether there are children in the household. Not drinking before or during shooting is often in the club's bylaws.
Look man, I often see the "fire extinguisher" talking point from people trying to excuse not securing their guns, and its almost always a libertarian type person. I have stuck to my point that fire arms need to be stored correctly. I am not sure why you are so aggressive about defending those who do not. Children or not we have way to lax a culture around gun safety.
And to go back to the fire extinguisher point a bit. It is meaningless. We don't prevent fires with them. By the time we need a fire extinguisher so many other things have gone wrong.
Even more strawman arguments. Read back through the comments - I never said anything about fire extinguishers, and am not defending anyone who is lax on safety.
Most enthusiasts are very serious about safety but know that the implementation details are situational.
Accidents are also very rare. If we want to try to reduce the small percentage who don't take safety seriously, we should start early and make a safety course part of everyone's schooling.
Maybe you should go back and read my point. I'm saying people are too lax on safety and we should make excuses for them. If you want to add something to that then do so. Otherwise you're talking past me and not making a point.