this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2025
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I don't care how positive the apparent outcome; I simply cannot agree with giving somebody credit for propaganda. Because essentially, that's what you're talking about.
We don't need confidence men like Musk or Trump. They have nothing but their own interests in mind. So he accidentally had a small positive influence? Big deal. If he hadn't spoken up, another would've taken his place.
He deserves no credit, just as he deserves no sympathy.
That sounds very black and white. With age I've come to the conclusion that black and white thinking while very satisfying has never led to anything good in my life. I avoid it where possible. It's a bit harder and it can bring me into situations where I don't feel the righteous vigor of being on the correct side, but I find that I've ruined more with that vigor than what I've fixed taking a detail oriented approach.
I do not see any benefit on looking for the illusory middle ground in this case.
It all comes back to the paradox of intolerance I think. If you fail to see an overwhelming every such as fascism in very strict black and white terms, you are not only putting yourself in harms way, you are actively allowing others to come Uber fire as well.
Yes. I approach the issue of Nazi shit stains like Musk in a very black and white perspective. And you should to. In fact, given the context, I find your response honestly deplorable. Even if we forget about Musk and focus on the propaganda issue, your response opens the door to assisting the spread dangerous misinformation that very realistically can cause actual pain and suffering.
Shame on you.
Jeezus christ, kid, I just said that the guy with his attitude and the right target group made EVs cool and therefore created the market back in the 10s. Which enabled the beginning of the EV revolution as we see it today. You make it a personal attack on me. Please be a lot calmer and gentler with other humans in the future.
I make no apology for my tone. However, although I do object strongly to your started position on this matter, I have no quarrel with you as an individual!
And again, any positive effect from his actions was not his goal nor his intent. So giving him credit for that is foolhardy at best. We should stop normalizing putting self absorbed sociopaths on any pedestal, for any reason. Nothing this man has ever done or accomplished is in any way praiseworthy. And we should not encourage him or others who might wish to emulate him, not even unintentionally.
What's wrong with propaganda?
Well, in short, by definition it spreads misinformation. Even if a particular propaganda message is technically truthful, by design the message has been alerted to focus on certain things while obscuring others. In other words, it's not only inherently subjective, but it's designed to be misinterpreted as objective.
Finally, I do not support any of the common causes or ideas that propaganda is usually intended to reinforce (e.g. patriotism sounds harmless, even positive, but largely is used to encourage bigotry and xenophobia).
What's wrong with propaganda? Everything.
all media is propaganda. no org can tell you everything that's happening, every human interest piece, every corporate move, every government policy, etc.
by necessity, they choose stories they think matter or will get clicks. it is up to you to understand the bias inherent in all media and distinguish fact from opinion, and draw your own conclusions.
propaganda, media, whatever you call it, isn't The Truth even if it's true.
so there is nothing wrong inherently with propaganda, even self-aware propaganda.