this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2025
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Never thought I’d see the day when Lemmy has nice things to say about a billionaire who owns multiple yachts!
There’s a story recently about how a huge percentage of people’s steam libraries are never played. People just spending money on steam sales and amassing huge backlogs of games they’ll never get to. Valve has mastered the art of using sales to create FOMO and drive unnecessary spending!
So your position is a store should never have sales? Besides, pretty sure games need to willingly participate to be on sale. e.g. factorio has never been on sale.
I didn’t give my position.
I don’t participate in steam sales anymore. I don’t buy anything on steam because I’ve already got way more games than I’ll ever be able to play. If there’s a new game that I really want to play I’ll try to get it from outside steam if I can, or at the very least make sure it’s DRM-free so I can play it without launching the steam client (I hate the steam client but that’s just my opinion and I won’t tell anyone else what to feel about it).
Do I think they should be banned from having sales? No. I also don’t think gambling should be made illegal even though I’ll continue trying to warn people away from gambling.
so you yourself is an example of how sales don't make you spend money...
personally i don't really buy random games because they are on sale. like, i go through the list of games shown on the steam sale page and most of the time i will find nothing interesting. what usually happens is i would wishlist games i want to play, then wait until steam sales and see if i get a discount.
I’m not a compulsive gambler either, but I have friends who are. Am I not allowed to be opposed to gambling?
Imagine arguing that creating a service so much better than the competition available in that industry that it drives people to spend the most money on that platform is a bad thing.
It isn’t better though? GOG is a better service. DRM-free, web based downloads (galaxy is completely optional). They even invest development resources to get old games working better.
Steam is mostly the dominant platform due to first-mover advantage. They aren’t the best and most of the games on Steam aren’t even exclusives.
Here's a blog post on GOG talking about how many developers abandon their games on there so they don't get updates or DLC like they do on other platforms https://www.gog.com/forum/general/how_do_games_recieving_updates_work_on_gog
I like GOG and love DRM free games however another point is that many, many games are never even available on GOG to begin with. So what do you do then?
Would you rather buy them on Xbox, PlayStation, Epic or Steam?
Most people choose steam because it is the best out of all those options.
I agree having a DRM free game that you own forever is the best option but 7 times out of 10 a new game won't even be listed on GOG in the first place and if it is refer back to the link about how they often get abandoned with no updates or DLC and therefore less features than on other platforms.
Also, talking about getting old games to work better I would refer you to the Proton compatibility layer that Valve develops.
Proton is built on the open source project Wine and private products from CodeWeavers. Yes, Valve has contributed a tremendous amount to the project but they aren’t deserving of sole credit for it.
I own neither an Xbox nor a PlayStation (nor a Switch, for that matter).
There are LOADS of other options besides AAA games on the big platforms. There are countless vintage games, freeware, shareware, and abandonware that can all be played on the Internet Archive. There are countless indie developers out there to support, including some that have been in business for more than 30 years.
It really bothers me when gamers act like the big publishers are the only game in town (while also complaining about how bad AAA games are now). I mean if you like AAA games, fine, no argument there from me. But if you also like games for their stories and gameplay and don’t need AAA graphics to have a good time then there are thousands and thousands of options out there. I just think most people are unaware of them.
Yes Proton is Valves own compatibility layer though. They built it in collaboration with Codeweavers but Valve built it with Steam money. Codeweavers needed that money to make it into what it is today and Valve provided it.
And that's ok that you don't own any of those systems but you are acting like Steam is unreasonable when the rest of the industry does the same thing.
There is sales on PlayStation and Xbox all the time too but why aren't most of those games unplayed and more bought on Steam? Because the market decided that was the best platform to buy it on. Do you not think Xbox and PlayStation "create FOMO" by offering sales too or just Steam?
And sure if you want to play old games or Indie games lots of options exist Itch.io is a good one too in addition to GOG.
But that's not really what's being talked about is it? This was about which storefront is better for consumers and most gaming consumers are playing AAA titles and of the storefront options for those titles there exist Steam, Epic, Xbox, and PlayStation and on some games itch.io and GOG but like I said before out of all those options Steam is the best one for new games and even old games sometimes when the developers don't give their GOG versions love like they should.
GOG gets shafted on updates and DLC and also doesn't even usually have like 70% of new games as an option to buy on them at all. Yes, I too prefer to own games but like I mentioned that isn't always the best option on GOG because of reasons stated above.
Also my abandonware and some others have had Malware problems in the past although so has Steam but it gets caught on steam usually quicker.
I don’t think Steam is unreasonable, I just think they get way more goodwill from their customers than they probably deserve. It’s like with Apple or the Catholic Church. A lot of people love them but they do have ugly sides.
I think convincing people to buy games they never play is a scuzzy thing to do. Is it as scuzzy as gambling? No. But it’s not up there with something like a co-op bakery or coffee shop that sells products (and a cozy environment) at a reasonable price that people actually enjoy.
People have been saying “well they support indie game developers” and sure, yes indie game developers sell a lot of games during Steam sales. But there’s a problem there too: if loads of people are buying indie games but not playing them then that distorts the indie game market. It takes revenue away from less-well-known developers and gives it to popular/viral flash sale developers whose games people aren’t playing. That’s bad for anyone who wants to reward developers for making better games that we actually want to play but otherwise haven’t heard about.
That's fair. They do a few things I don't appreciate but overall I like them a lot better than any alternative other than GOG but I do hate that developers don't update stuff the way it deserves on there sometimes.
Its always good to be a little critical of any service.
But the thing about the sales is that the developers and publishers set the sale price, not Valve. Valve still takes the cut of course.
But the reason you are seeing that most people buy them and don't play them on there specifically is because it's just the most used service for gaming. They have a higher userbase than playstation and Xbox combined. And that really just ties in with them being the most customer friendly.
I'm not saying they arent without faults but they are better overall than any of the competition.
Also to add to this PlayStation has been known to limit and straight up restrict indie developers sales prices on their platform sometimes straight up not letting them do it at all. So that's another reason it all ties together to Valve not being a shit company. I'm sure that Xbox probably does the same thing but haven't researched it as I sold my Xbox when they did the gamepass price hike this last time.
In my opinion letting indie developers set their own sale prices is good for the industry. But not letting them certainly isn't.
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/7/224446432324091426/
Many games on Steam don't have any DRM enabled and will boot without it. You just need to check
Wait, why we should not argue? Steam is not perfect so we yap. Also not good enough considering it's just a game listing library and still taking 30% cut from devs imo.
Never said not to argue.
I said imagine your argument being that because a service does sales all the time and consumer relations better than almost all the competition available in the industry that that's a bad thing because people spend money on said sales.
Its a bit of a shit argument.
"They have so many sales all the time that they force people into spending money they shouldn't spend! And that's bad!!"
Also, all those devs are free to use any other platform that doesn't take 30%.
Remind me again how much PlayStation and Xbox take? Oh yeah, 30% huh.
"Never said not to argue." Ok.
Btw, PlayStation and Xbox provide whole console system, Apple store and Google play are also 30% and they provide iOS and Android. It's not same as Valve.
Me saying "imagine arguing" is the same same as saying "your argument is stupid because" and that is not the same as saying not to argue.
I said imagine arguing the points they argued because they are silly. Lots of storefronts have sales shit epic even gives shit away for free every week and gives 20% back in points when you buy a game fron them but you don't hear anyone talking about how they "create FOMO" by not participating in their storefront.
Its a dumb argument. That is what "imagine arguing" means in that context. Hope that helps.
And yeah they make the console that you have to pay a fee to use internet on. Valve doesn't do that. If you stop paying their exorbitant fees to use the internet you pay for already to play their games online then you lose half the functionality of your game that you bought. (For multiplayer ones of course).
Valve also makes systems but yes it isn't quite the same as how PS and Xbox do it I understand what you are saying. However, everyone acts like Steam is greedy dickheads for charging the exact same rate other platforms charge without also charging you some dumb online play fee which is the real greedy fuckery. Despite them having more users than PlayStation and Xbox combined.
I think its funny that no one calls out the other companies greedy fuckery though. Just the one that is the nicest to their consumers (being steam)
LIKE GOG THAT ALSO TAKES 30%
Where's your hate for GOG though? I don't see it.
I never said GOG is good either, chill.
You're still defending Steam’s 30% fee for no good reason besides cherry-picking failed competitors.
Also if you think “sale is good” and “Steam is customer friendly” (I think so too), why are you so mad when I talked about Steam’s 30% fee? I just said 30% is too high for just a game launcher. Fee acts like tariff, if Steam lowers fee little bit, game price will go down too. Which is super customer friendly. Don’t you like it?
Look, I don’t care how much you fangirling Steam, but it certainly doesn’t help Steam any better.
You mean all of them? PlayStation, Xbox, and GOG literally the only two that don't do this is Itch.io and Epic and Epic games store hasn't been profitable since it came out in 2018. And Itch is pretty much indie games only. Please name one other competitor that sells AAA titles that doesn't do that besides epic which again hasn't been profitable as a game store since 2018. They supplement it all with that fortnite money.
You want steam to be the only one that has AAA titles for sale that doesn't take the same percentage cut every single other one takes?
Not fangirling either I'm pointing out that your hate is completely unwarranted. You should hate the gaming industry as a whole if you hate the pricing model it has set up.
The reason people put their games on PlayStation, Xbox, GOG and Steam is because that's where all the players are. They could easily only sell it on Epic and not sell well if they wanted to do that. (The fee being so low on Epic is why they don't make money BTW give it a search online)
These developers could even set up their own payment processing system and sell it directly on their own website which would take about, oh look at that 20 - 30% of profits without any of the exposure PS, Xbox, GOG, and Steam gives you. I wonder why they don't do that if its such a bad deal for them? (Payment processing fees, bank fees, website hosting fees - add it all up you're not talking about some random checking account you're talking about an account moving millions of dollars through it)
You know Xbox and PlayStation could also stop charging you for the internet you already pay for and that would be super consumer friendly too. Also could not take 30% "Don't you like it?" GOG could do it too. What's stopping them?
Also no, I'm "mad" because you willfully misunderstood what I said earlier and said I was saying not to argue which is not what I said. But ok, let's argue about it, then. You dont seem to know what you are talking about because so far your argument is shit because every single other competitor does what you're crying about steam doing. Except the one losing money.
Calm down bro. I don't hate Steam. I have hundreds of games on Steam and I launch Steam every day, play some games.
Ah yes, cashing process. Steam takes 30% after transactional fees applied, you know that right? Or are you talking about web/transactional server cost? Yeah it costs some but not like that much as you mentioned. Still feels like 30% of fee is too much for just a game launcher with cashing process. I don't care about your business models with lots of swear, without solid convincing data about 30% of fee is necessary to maintain Steam.
Also swearing too much doesn't make you look good, I'm sorry but I felt like talking to an angry cult member.
Again you are wrong that 30% includes payment fees give it a search and educate yourself.
But yeah all those "failed competitors" I "cherry picked" charge the same amount steam does which was your original argument about why it sucks so bad. So you should be outraged at PS and Xbox charging that AND a fee to use your internet on multiplayer games.
Literally the only one that charges less hasn't been profitable. You're out of your element Donny.
Every single other competitor charges the same thing they do, is that enough evidence or are you going to claim every single other service is a failed competitor again? Maybe you will say that Steam should go against the rest of the industry and charge less than literally any other profitable competitor even though they have the biggest userbase out of all of them?
And if the word shit hurts your feelings you should probably know what you're talking about and not accuse me of saying stuff I didn't say like suggesting I said not to argue about steam which again I never said. Reading comprehension can be hard, I get it.
I've seen additional fees multiple times at bill screen so I misunderstood. I apologize. Though, usually payment fees are below 5%. 30% is still too much cut. Doesn't convince me at all.
Why should I shut up because other all competitors which I don't care have similar fees? I'm still not getting answer from you about lowering fees means lowering game prices, which is core of my opinion. Why are you caring Valve's profit margin so much? That's Valve's job and not customers concern.
And... why do you full trust with Valve? I mean we are just buying licenses to play ... ok this will be a long tangent that I don't want to stretch. Are you a Valve's employee or Gabe himself? If not, why are you so zealous? I can't get it at all.
I never told you to shut up you are good at putting words in peoples mouths I have noticed.
And no no, I don't trust valve all the way. The licensing can be taken at any time in my opinion they have censorship issues and they said that about not being able to pass down games when you die. I dotn trust them all the way.
What bothers me is when people complain and cry about how Valve charges so much in fees when the entire gaming industry charges the exact same fee. And yet somehow PS and Xbox and GOG are always excluded from the conversation when it comes to this discussion.
You being upset at Valve doesn't change the rest of the gaming industry. Also no, not charging the fees isn't going to lower prices because just like the sales all of that is up to the publishers and developers nothing is stopping them from charging 30% extra to cover the fees and again they could absolutely host their own stuff and deal with payment processing fees, hosting fees, bank fees and all that without the exposure that every single competitor to valve gives them at the same exact price valve charges.
One of those gives you double the exposure than the other two combined though and I'll let you guess which one that is.
"I never told you to shut up you are good at putting words in peoples mouths I have noticed." I mean look back your comments.
Again, I'm talking about 30% is high, and you say it's not. Fine, then instead of looking into the details, you are trying to convincing me with what's competitors doing, which I don't care at all, with swears (not this time though).
I can't get what you meant at 4th paragraph.
"not charging the fees isn’t going to lower prices" No, Steam is heavily competitive market, which means lowering fees lowers price to compete. Even so, publishers and dev take excess sounds nice to me. Yes sir please develop more games. And... why I should care about exposures? I'm just a customer.
Ok I looked back at my comments and never did say that. Can you point out where I did?
And yes, 30% is what every competitor in that market that is making money charges which is why I say its strange and unwarranted that you only call Steam out for this. This is an industry standard.
And these publishers and developers can set the price to whatever they want. They could do 30% over the fees on just the steam store and less on other platforms like itch.io if they wanted to. They don't owe anything to steam and they don't have to use it, GOG, PlayStation or Xbox if they don't want to. They could host and do all the payment processing on their own shiny website. There's a reason they don't do that.
You care that they get charged an industry standard fee but font care about how much exposure their games get? You made an argument like you cared about games and their developers/publishers? Is that not the case? If you're "just a consumer" why do you care about the fee the game developers are being charged on (every, BTW) store front in the first place?
Ever notice how Epic charges half the fees any others do (and has lost $450million USD so far by doing that) and the price for the games is the same as on other platforms? You're misinformed if you think that they wouldn't do the same on Steam or Xbox or PlayStation if they lowered fees. There's your evidence right there.
Also, you're an adult right? You should probably stay off message boards and any publicly used websites with comments if swear words hurt you so much. No one is forcing you to be here or engage just like no one is forcing you to use steam or put games on there.
Also the fees you're talking about during checkout are taxes my dude. Jesus... Lol
So because it's an industry standard, my opinion is wrong (with lots of swears)? Not because it's actual details, but because standard? huh. Ok then, there is nothing to talk about here.
"Pub/Devs love lowering Steam fee" and "Steam has high exposure" are irrelevant.
I don't hate your opinion in single time (except swears), I just don't like your zealous mindset. Like what the hell is this a logic behind this: "... they don’t have to use it, GOG, PlayStation or Xbox if they don’t want to" We are talking about Steam's fee and saying like this means you're forcing to finish conversation.
"Also, you’re an adult right? You should probably stay off message boards and any publicly used websites with comments if swear words hurt you so much. No one is forcing you to be here or engage just like no one is forcing you to use steam or put games on there." Then I can report your swear comments ...right? Lemmy is quite different from the place like reddit you might not imagine. I suggest you to visit there if you like things what you've said.
Nope your opinion can be whatever you want it to be but why not hold the same opinion for the whole industry standard instead of one storefront that's a part of it? Why single one out and ignore the rest?
Again I notice you didn't say anything about how Epic charges less than half the fees any of the others do and yet the games are magically the same price as they are everywhere else. Is that not evidence that you're wrong with your statement that lowering the fee that everyone else that makes money uses isn't going to make the games cheaper? I mean bro the evidence is right there.
And yes you can report whatever you want I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who'd doesn't even understand how taxes on a storefront checkout work and who can't read something someone says without completely twisting it into something they didn't say like saying I said not to argue and saying I said to shut up which never happened.
You seem like the type of reactionary person that would do that when proved wrong. I'm not gonna cry about it. No where in any of my comments did I attack you, simply said your arguments are shit and they are.
You never proven me to wrong what are you talking. You failed to explain the detail of 30% and you run away to industry standard and Epic. Sure. Steam is the best option currently available, that's no doubt. It's better that if they lower 30% fee, that's I said. You'll answer industry standard and Epic with provocations. Which is reasonable in a way but not what I'm talking about.
End of conversation. I don't want to talk to you anymore, felt so exhausted.
you said that if they lowered their fee developers and publishers would make their games lower pricing. They dotn do that on epic which charges less than half of what steam charges. How is that wrong?
What exactly should be done about that?
Done about what? I stopped using steam. I buy games directly from developers or from GOG or humble bundle as well as just supporting open source games.
Nothing I can do about GabeN’s yachts though!
About people buying more games then they need. you are acting like that is gabe's fault.
Its even crazier when that dude realizes that Steam doesn't even set the prices, the game developers and publishers do.
I feel like people don't understand this a lot
I mean you can blame gamblers for losing all their money to Las Vegas too but that’s not a common opinion on Lemmy!
How are those the same?
A sale that happens every few months or even weeks is the same as gambling? Sure i buy more id a game is on sale.. But not because of fomo but because i can save money?
No, it’s not the same as gambling, but it does exploit weaknesses in human psychology to get people to buy things they don’t need.
If you’re buying a game that you’ll never play just because it’s on sale, you’re not saving money.
You would be happy to know that Steam doesn't set the sales prices, the developers and publishers of games do that.
So whether you buy their game on GOG or Steam, you are directly supporting the people that set those sales.
Best not to buy any games that go on sales to keep true to your values!
Valve doesn’t set the prices but they provide the venue. Just like how Vegas provides the venue but doesn’t run the casinos.
Lots of other places have casinos but Vegas is the one everyone blames for the epidemic of gambling addictions. Vegas creates the conditions for problematic gambling that are much more powerful than a single casino.
Developers and publishers set the prices of sales like CD Projekt who makes Cyberpunk and has a 65% off sale right now.
So look at that, the company that owns GOG is one of the companies you're upset about making all those sales and "taking money" from people.
Wheres the hate man? Why not boycott?
Or is that only for Steam and not really about who sets the sales?
I mean if you're going to be outraged at least have some consistency about it.
Sounds like the only thing you're upset about that Valve controls is more people use it and the CEO has a yacht. Due to those sales that your beloved owners of GOG set.
ALSO GOG ALSO TAKES A 30% CUT
It’s not sales specifically that I have an issue with, it’s a business model based on selling people tons of games they don’t play. Is GOG doing that too? Well I don’t like that either, but at least I can take my games with me when I leave GOG because they’re DRM free downloads from a web browser.
Yeah the owners of GOG (CD Projekt) aren't rich either?
Idk man the games you play are designed by groups of people (maybe except our Stardew Valleys and whatnot) and those people spend hours upon hours developing said games.
You know that takes money to make happen right?
he just took ownership of a $500M megayacht. Yes, he's a bit better than other billionaires, but he's still a billionaire. While other people starve to death he's sitting pretty on billions. He's as unethical as the rest of the oligarchy.
dude owns the yacht manufacturer. lots of people can own yachts. he owns the shipyard that makes the yachts.