this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2025
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[–] Credibly_Human@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

There is unfortunately a lot of nuance here.

A Gripen does not do the same things that an F35 does.

Europe simply does not have an answer to 5th or 6th generation fighters and I feel like wanting to be supporting of peoples respective countries and acknowledging the US being pretty awful right now is making people unwilling to acknowledge this glaring and incredibly important fault in western arms manufacturing outside of the US.

Humans benefit greatly when people, groups etc, specialize as less resources need to be wasted reinventing the wheel, but when it comes to defence, the current situations shows how flat footed CANZUK has been left by allowing the US to basically become the single source for some of the most crucial defence items.

Projects like FCAS need to cut the bureaucratic bullshit and speed up development as its increasingly obvious that the US is not a stable partner. CANZUK despite years of warning about these facts remained unwilling to spend, viewing it as inefficient, and with every individual state that has the capabilities holding recalcitrant attitudes, fighting over who gets to build what.

Basically, what I am saying, is that I would love to have non US weaponry, but if that weaponry can't compete with US weaponry, there isn't much of a point.

I mean, quite frankly, for us, Canada, the most important thing we could possibly do this decade, is to internally create our own ultimate strategic deterrents. Anything short of that would leave us completely defenceless to our greatest military threat, and largest neighbour. There is literally no chance we win any conventional war, so in a way, not even this fighter deal matters.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

A lot of the nuance is also one of threat assessment, and risk tolerance.

We can prepare for a situation where we're attacked by the US, but given all probabilities is that worth it compared to preparing for a situation where we get attacked by China or Russia, or is that even worth considering vs preparing for a situation where we can ramp up industrial military production as fast as possible and become a resource rich manufacturing powerhouse?

There's no way of knowing which path the world will go down, and preparing for everything simply isn't possible, so every decision is going to be a matter of what risks to take for what potential benefits.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 1 points 2 hours ago

I think we'd do not badly in a conventional war when you factor in the fact that the Americans would be fighting on two fronts - within Canada against Canadians, and within America against the substantial chunk of Americans who would be trying to bring down the regime that was causing something as insane as an invasion of Canada to be undertaken. Plus there'd be international support at play. It would be a huge mess. Canada would just need to make the mess as big and as long as possible.

That said, preventing America from invading in the first place would be ideal, so the more preemptive preparation to strengthen Canada's position and weaken America's the better. Shifting our military supply lines to European sources is a step in that direction for many reasons. I do think a nuclear deterrent would be ideal, but that's a couple of steps of escalation further down the line I think.